Episode 98: Tips to Gain Confidence in Your Songwriting

 

Welcome to a special episode where we dive into essential insights on becoming a more confident and successful songwriter. In this conversation, we join Mike Meiers and Judy Stakee as they discuss the journey of gaining confidence in songwriting and offer valuable tips for songwriters of all levels.

Judy Stakee, a renowned figure in the music industry, shares her wisdom and experiences gained from working with some of the biggest names in the business, including Sheryl Crow and Katy Perry. 

Judy and Mike provide valuable insights into developing your own unique process and system to unlock the emotional content in your lyrics and melodies as well as the keys to success in this industry. They also discuss the importance of self-love, embracing your vulnerabilities, and the perpetual learning that is essential for growth.

Conversations like this one can help get you on a path to change your entire energy around songwriting. 

 It's time to unlock your potential and make 2024 a year of musical triumph. Join the "Songwriting Survival Guide" event now and get instant access to the first two modules on "5 Lyrical Pitfalls" and "Shredding the Guitar Rulebook". 

Click to learn more here. https://www.songwritingforguitar.com/songwritingsurvivalevent

Read the transcript generated by a.i. below or listen to the full episode here.

Mike Meiers 1:50
There aren't a lot of people that I love. I always say like, I'd love to have you back. But it's like there are very few that realized, oh, no, you're in a select few. But it totally makes sense. Because you drastically changed how I viewed songwriting. So it was just like, and I think I quote you a ton. And I do give you credit I don't take credit on. I like to think the majority I'm always like, Oh, no, no, that's, that's. But no, this this episode I think is going to be interesting because we're talking about how to gain confidence in songwriting. And I feel like you're the perfect person to have on for this because you helped me gain way more confidence in songwriting. I don't think I told you, when we met, I felt like really, I thought about checking out. I was at a point of not feeling that great. I had no idea. I had done this road of doing country pop for a while and not really loving it, and not having fun. And I just didn't feel like I had a place I didn't feel really good. I was doing the film and TV. And it was it was super starting up. It was okay. But I just wasn't feeling really good. And I was like questioning, like literally everything and thinking, should I just like throw in the towel and just like just stay teaching and do that. And that's the life that I'm gonna lead and just like just kind of go with it, or, you know, just kind of stick it through. So when I met you, it was a very kind of like, you know, if you want to talk about overcoming, you know, con, you know how to gain more confidence. I mean, there are lots of things I feel like you gave me advice on that really helped me. Because I had to drive back I drove to Nashville. And so driving back home, I really thought about it a ton. It wasn't like, total, like I want to give up forever. But it was just I was feeling like, oh, maybe I just don't belong here. Maybe I'm just out of place and a little depleted. Yeah, you know what? I think it was it was really depleted. And just, I don't know, just and it to me lacking the confidence, because I also too, I saw everybody was doing stuff and I'm like, Oh, I'm not doing that. I'm not like them. I'm not doing this. And so the the comparison is maybe one you know, to gain confidence. Like it's good to look at others, but don't necessarily copy or use their their growth as your blueprint because you're you and

Judy Stakee 4:12
not and when you think about it, my you are the first person ever, and I've not since you okay, that how I have allowed to come in and teach besides me because the basics workshop is it's about me, it's about spending time five days with me. So I can like, get in your head. Yeah. And at that retreat, if you came up to me and said, Well, you know, I'm a guitar teacher. You want me I could teach them stuff. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm fine. Fine, fine. What would you teach? If you did give you some time to teach and, you know, you rattled it off and I was like, Okay, I'll give you a half an hour and now it's like you get a whole hour and you know

Mike Meiers 4:53
what, you know, it was that it was one of those things where it affirmed like Oh, I do have knowledge in my head. That is super, super helpful.

But it is it's so like, like, pushing yourself a little bit into this realm of like, I hadn't thought like, I'm like, oh, sweet Jesus, I can't believe I'm like, I'm gonna fall and

Judy Stakee 7:25
then you're holding yourself up with all your strength. Nobody else is holding you up. But you are. All we're doing at the very top is making sure that you don't go over. But otherwise, everybody that does, it gets up there. And they're like, I can't believe like, yeah, you're holding your whole body upside down. And it just, oh my god, the first retreat I ever did it about in 2015. In France, I this 65 year old man got off the bus and who's really tall, and he was like wrong, like, prove to me that this is worth my while type thing. You know, it's the first one I did. And I'm after the first day. And he did, he did the hands down his smile, just like went from ear to ear. He could not stop smiling. It just changed his whole body chemistry. That's wonderful, total energy.

Mike Meiers 8:10
But yeah, it makes sense that why you do that to just show like, if you can do this, suddenly, all these other things that are in your way, or you think are in your way or impossible, they're actually not that bad,

Judy Stakee 8:19
you can do that? Well, and I think you have to experience confidence to gain confidence. Okay. So, you know, you gain confidence by studying, okay, studying all the administrative things that you need to do to be a songwriter, you have to study how to copyright something and how to, to register it with a PR row. And you have to study how to put your lyrics into the computer and how to register, you know how to keep track of them and how to keep track of your commitment. There's a lot of learning to do. And when you accomplish, you gain confidence when you put something in, like, oh, that's what I've got to accomplish. You do that? You gain confidence. And so we we've tackled your body, your mind, your soul is about, I think with your confidence in your soul is is loving yourself. I mean, that's the that's the key for that. You know, I think that's the key for a lot of it. But I think that if we start loving ourselves, it's like we start figuring out that like, oh, we are kind of grave. Oh, I can do that. So I was on with a client this morning, who had been to one of my treats, and we were talking about it. And she said what was interesting to her was that when you asked the question, what do you like most about yourself? And, you know, you read it know that, that everybody cried that everybody broke down and cried when they had to read their their piece. And she was like, I'm just I was stunned by that. And I'm kind of wondering why You know, I was thinking, Why does everybody apply? And I said, Well, I think that I don't think people are asked that I don't think people are ever asked to turn their attention to themselves and say, Oh, by the way, you know, I love that you're loyal. I don't think about that. But I love that I'm loyal. You know, and I think my friends do too. But when you're when you don't put the focus you it's hard on confidence. When it's all about somebody else. It's like, no, no, no, they do it better, they do it better, they do better. And then when you put the attention on you, but the mirror, turn it around and see your reflection. It's like, well, wait a minute, I am loyal I am this I am that. I'm a badass, okay, I got you know, but you have to you have to fall in love with yourself, you have to look at yourself, and you have to honor that about you. You know,

Mike Meiers 10:49
I think it's tough to love yourself. And it should be the easiest thing in the world. It shouldn't be you I'm not disagreeing, it should should absolutely be the easiest thing. And then I think there's a lot of different barriers that are put up as we get older, and we think expectations that to earn someone's off, we must do XYZ to do we must, the idea of inherent worth, and love that just we don't have to jump over, you know, this hurdles to for someone to love us or ourselves to love ourselves that just to love who we are, in our space in our curiosity and our faults in our things that are not always perfect,

Judy Stakee 11:31
you hit the nail on the head right there. Because it's loving ourselves for all of it. For all of that, just the whole I know, and that's hard to do. But it kind of goes with the territory. You know, like there's no way that we're all going to be nice all the time, you know,

Mike Meiers 11:50
but I think that's just the story of being human too. And so maybe that's why songwriters do need to really embrace this because when you're songwriter, you're dealing with connection and emotion and, and relating stories. It's like you have to love yourself in your story and who you are and who you're becoming and who you once were in your transitions and your changes your false the whole story, the story of where you tripped, you fell. But then you got back up the whole thing your whole life. Yeah, it's just the whole thing. And that means it doesn't stop. That's the other thing that I think is challenging is not just, you know what you've done, but like what you've yet to do what you've yet to become in your very last breath and the whole that whole thing.

Judy Stakee 12:30
It's the vulnerability that ties it all together. It's the vulnerability that allows you to go into those places and go, Okay, let me let me tell you a little story that I don't usually tell. But this is a whopper this is going to get, you know, the vulnerability allows you to love the good and the bad. Mobility is what connects us all.

Mike Meiers 12:53
I still when I'm doing busy work, especially like you know, emails and stuff like that I will still binge especially during the pandemic I binged a ton of Mr. Rogers, because it was just good. I just like Miss Ron. And every time that he ends, when he ends on the phrase, I like you just the way you are. It hits heavier as an adult, because it's just like, really fret like just me. Just like there's only one person in the world like you and people can like you just the way you are. It's like really just the way I just the way I am. That makes me get very like like I can feel it because it's just like that's in anything that we do somewhere in wise equate our status with worth and we have to we have to earn it we have to earn and it's not saying not to try but to know that you can still hold your head up high

Judy Stakee 13:47
worth does not come from the accolades of you know, just because you won first place doesn't make you want maybe worth more as far as like for a Kellogg's commercial. Okay, you might get more money on the box of Wheaties, but your self worth Yeah, has is not tied into that. self worth comes from self loving. I love myself, I think I am worth myself. I love. I have spent a lot of time figuring out what I love about myself and what I'm not crazy about. And I love the not the places that I'm not crazy about. You don't think I just I love them. I don't I don't go, ah, that's terrible. It's like to I am. I'm not crazy about it. But I'm loving it. You know, I mean, I send it love instead of just shutting everything, you know? Because when we get what am I going to do? You know? I mean, we're certain ways that we grow up that it's really our, you know, I'm a more large charge person, you know, if I see it and something needs to be gets done, I go in and do it. And a lot of times it's like, Dude, you don't need to do that and like, Oh, that's right, you know, but that's who we are. So we have it's like alright, well you know when needed. I love If it's not needed right now,

Mike Meiers 15:03
yeah, I feel the same way when something needs to get out. I'm like, Alright, let's go, let's go. And then I'll just keep on going. And what I love about Jen is she'll stop and be like, Hey, have you like gotten up from your desk? And I'm like, you know, I need to keep on powering through it. And she was like, you know, I think you actually need to, like, walk and take a nap or just get something IE, it's just like, you're so in zone. So it's, yeah, we, you know, I love everything about, you know, yeah, me, even in the things where I'm like, Man, I can just be so stubborn sometimes.

Judy Stakee 15:32
Yeah. But you know, that's not what we're taught that as songwriters their job, every single day, sometimes twice a day, is to go in to their self, to their heart to their soul, and come up with some story that's going to move us that's going to heal us is going to celebrate us whatever. Never emotion it spurs on. That is a lot to ask of somebody every single day. It's like, can we operate on your heart every single day? Let's go in there and see what's going on. So I think you better love yourself. Because I think it's harder to do when you're not loving yourself.

Mike Meiers 16:17
Yeah. And that makes sense, too. Because if you can't do that, and find the gold in yourself, you probably can't, you know, as someone that collaborates with artists, other people, how can you recognize the golden others and the other things that are great about them, where it's just like, if you can't do it for yourself, you can't assume that you're going to be able to point out like all those cool things within them. Because you might be blind to that.

Judy Stakee 16:40
Right? One of my teachers gave this great, great example of that. She said, so when you go into the bathroom mirror, and you look at yourself in the mirror, and you've got dirt on your face, she said, do you take the wash cloth and wipe the dirt off the mirror? You you wash it off your face. And that's the attention is to put onto you. If something's dirt, then you got to figure it out. You know, it's it's for you to love yourself, it's for you to wipe the dirt off your it's not out there. It's in there. Now beautiful.

Mike Meiers 17:19
And I feel like what we're doing now is to gain confidence you have to get you have to have community, oh, you have to have connection with others. Because an isolated isolated growth I don't think is good growth. It's just having a community of people that build you up that also are are interested in the pursuits that you want to do to like if you're a songwriter, you better be spending time with more songwriters. And not just like, you know, you know, random people that are just like ads probably not worth it. You want people that are also curious.

Judy Stakee 17:53
Well, you know, my curiosity is one of my favorite words. So that's, that's how you go forward, being curious. But yes, you're right. And that's all about being conscious and aware. I'll give you an example. So I had this was a years and years ago, I signed this writer down in Nashville, and we're sitting at Cracker Barrel was gonna say Applebee's, but it was Cracker Barrel, with the tablecloths with the crayons and all that. And we're sitting there in pancakes, drinking, you know, great brewed coffee that's been there for a while. And he starts telling me that he wants to start producing great little producer. And I went, that's fantastic. I said, But how are you going to do that? And he was like, What do you mean? I said, Well, let's look at your life. And I clear up in the middle, I've got crayons and drew a big circle. I drew him in the middle. And then I started like, sectioning off pies. And I'm like, Okay, can you come right here, here, here, here? The family got daughters, you got birds, and you got this, you got this set. So where are you planning to produce? Where are you planning to do this? And I said, stuff, let's talk about each thing that you've got. I said, you know, you're obviously your wife and your daughter's day. Okay. But let's talk about all these co writes that you have. Let's talk about all these people that you're co writing with. I said, when you're first beginning, co writing with everybody is a must. You got to go out there and date, you got to go out there and figure out what you like, what you don't like, what you need, what you don't need. And then there comes a time where you have to start being selfish, and start looking at the CO writers and saying, You know what, there's I'm maybe co writing with 15 people right now. But really, only two or three of them are really giving me the songs that I need to build a catalogue or record cuts or do whatever that was the first thing that we did was we cut out all those extra co writes, he narrowed it down he started working on, you know, and then all of a sudden his songs got better too. I mean, in their first year, that's what they're supposed to do. They're supposed to write with everybody. They're supposed to write all these songs, so that you can get to the to the great ones.

Mike Meiers 19:55
Yeah, you have to write a ton to get do amazing songs. You just can't read a cup to bake

Judy Stakee 20:02
a lot of cakes. Think about that. They might have any cake. So you put too much sugar in or too much flour, you left something out or, you know, you have to work. You know, unfortunately for songwriters, they chose, you know, songs, which are every day there, you know, it's not like, Oh, I got to make one product and Xerox that off and make a million of them and sit back. No, they chose a profession that they have to make their their wares. And it's like, going to make a coffee cup every single day. I have to make one. That's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. So

Mike Meiers 20:36
you have to make several notches. Not just one, you got to make several. Yeah. You know, I've, I've always felt more confident after like, for instance, the retreat I took with you. I remember driving home just feeling like, you know, I was on fucking fire just like I was like, hell yeah, I was like, there we go. This is gonna have recommitted. And I'm like, what? It was a series of lots of different aha was. And I think that's important. And also understanding your background. And like, you know, like, I was like, holy, and you know, I remember talking to Jen on the way home and I was being like, No, you're under Scott. She, like found Cheryl. Like, this was huge. This was a mate. And I think the education piece, people think like, oh, it stops eventually. I'm like, Are you kidding me for every level that you want. It's just like, You got to re up and you've got to get more and you've got to invest even more in yourself and, and go, because a next level thing isn't going to happen with what you learn five years ago, you better be looking for new things, if you want to grow.

Judy Stakee 21:42
Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. I believe that being a perpetual student. Plus Student Yeah, is a great attribute to have in being a summer being anything. Because you have that attitude of, okay, I did that. What else do you need me to do? How high do you need me to jump today? What else? What else is out there? You know, so Sheryl Crow was an A plus student and why I loved working with her so much. I mean, she just, she was so thirsty for my critiques. And for my, my point of view, my perspective, you know, and I think that's what songwriters really need is that they, they need somebody else's perspective, because they get too close to it. You know, I mean, she would get, I mean, I didn't need to teach her how to song right. But she needed an editor, she needed someone to tell her that chorus is amazing. Do not lose that chorus, okay. Your verses are not as exciting. So, you know, do something with those. But you know, but I mean, that was that was about it. As far as the comments. I mean, her lyrics are just to me, they're just brilliant. But again, she was an A plus student. So it was a lot easier.

Mike Meiers 22:51
That's why we're doing this event. Because independently, we do things on our own. And independently, I reference you, and I'll bring you in the class, you'll reference me and, you know, coming to the retreat, it's but the idea of creating something that is uniquely designed for songwriters, and combining because when I think especially October, this is essentially what like, what do you want the next year to be? Oh, what do you want to do? Yeah, start what where do you where do you want to go? And you need to be thinking about this now. And if you do the work, and you start planning, and you start re upping some skills, and start learning from others and get ready, your next year can be tremendous. If you want it to be

Judy Stakee 23:37
being willing to learn. That's the education part. It's being willing to learn. And when you I mean, for me, it's like when I'm, you know, if I want to go to New York, I have to put a plan in place. I have to put a plan in place. Whatever you we do in this life, we're putting a process a plan in place to get where we want to go. It's the same thing with songwriters, it's an artist if they have to put a plan in place. What do you need? Do you need more guitar lessons, more voice lessons, more songwriting lessons, what kind of coach do you need? What kind of schedule do you need? What kind of kind of information do you need so you can build up? It's interesting. I another client from the retreat a couple of weeks ago who, who had gone home and done the homework as far as the body journal was concerned, and I have everybody go home and for a week, write down how much they eat, what time they eat. for it. Same with sleep. Oh, same with exercise. And they were stunned. And I've heard this before, but it was so amazing to hear this woman who just was like, I really thought I had it together. And then I looked at like when I was sleeping and when I was and what I was doing, it's just like I was amazed. I was just amazed until you see it in front of you. Until you put a plan in place and see things in front of you. How are you going to ever change in anything, how are you ever going to, to edit or to develop when you don't know what you're doing? So the first thing is, you got to sit down and figure out what am I doing? What do I need?

Mike Meiers 25:10
All of the, the curriculum that we've lined up for people, right? is purely to set them up to make them evaluate, because this is for someone that maybe is fresh design writing and is like, I want to make sure that what I'm doing is, you know, moving in the right direction, or someone that I've been doing this for a while, but nothing's working, where it feels like I'm spinning my wheels, kind of how I felt, I felt like okay, I kind of know some things. Man, I'm spinning my wheels. This is simply to give processing system. I feel like the one thing that you gave me that helped a ton was like, Okay, what's your process? And was your system look like? Those are the things that help you actually move and gain momentum if you don't have things like that. And you're not evaluating that and you can't explain it to someone that's a red flag, because then you probably don't, and you're going on the edge of your seat. Who knows in what direction I agree it to me this is something that you can sign up right now for so the song rain survival event is going on is kicking off, you can sign up, you can get access to the first couple modules. There's some great ones you do. Lyrical pitfalls, lyrical pitfalls, which I'm always like, I need constant I, as I was watching them, I was like, Oh, that's a good, like, part of me was like taking little notes while editing just for myself. And then I'm diving into the content of, you know, shredding the rulebook why I want people who maybe have been resistant guitar or resistant guitar for sunrays, because they believe too many misconceptions that are just not true. That your whole, your whole goal is to unlock the emotional content of your guitar, so that you can unlock the emotional content of the lyrics of the melody because they've all got to work for each other. And if they don't, it's one of those things. So it's to me that the information that we're diving into, is fantastic. And I'm just excited to see people dive in start commenting to start engaging with the material.

Judy Stakee 27:11
I'm just so excited that, that we put this together. Yeah, this reaches more people. You know, I mean, my whole thing is that I know that this is my purpose. And this is my passion, of making sure that songwriters have the information that they need, besides the motivation, and an education and all that, but the to keep going, you know, to keep doing what they're doing, because I do this for selfish reasons is that I just love songs too much. I can't imagine a world without music. And so I want somewhere else to keep writing. And I want them to be writing great songs.

Mike Meiers 27:45
That too, and I my intention. I think that's why I still feel connected and why we still do stuff is because you genuinely enjoy teaching. I genuinely enjoy teaching. Absolutely. And our goal is to just make someone just like this episode, feel confident like that. They don't feel discouraged that they feel like they've got the tools to go forward that they know, hey, I'm going to put the work in. I'm going to put the time in is I've got these in my toolbox. I'm ready to go do the thing. Yeah. Oh, God, I'm ready for the the next level. So we're including the links for everyone to sign up. So the event is going on right now that you can dive in, you could start diving into the first two modules right now and start connecting within the community. So the links will be included. Judy, thanks for being on here. This was so good.

Judy Stakee 28:31
You are so welcome, anytime.

Mike Meiers 28:39
That's right, Judy and I are combining forces to help songwriters get a head start on 2024. So what you need to do just go to songwriting for guitar.com You can join our songwriting Survival Guide. Right now you can get access to the first two modules. Plus Judy and I are going to be doing some live q&a as well that you may want to sign up for and be because guess what, you know, if she's discovered people like Sheryl Crow, you may want to hear what she has to say I would highly recommend it. So go to songwriting for guitar.com so you can sign up for it right now. Everything too, is kicking off officially officially, October 27. And remember if you sign up right now you're gonna get instant access to the first two modules, lyrical pitfalls and shredding the guitar rulebook, so just go to Song rank for guitar.com. That does it for this week's episode. It was edited and produced by Chris Mathias. I'm Mike Myers. Thanks for listening

Transcribed by https://otter.ai