Episode 73: American Idol vs. What Actually Works

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Have you ever had anyone say to you with great enthusiasm, “You should try out for American Idol!”?  It’s a well intentioned but generally a misguided statement for musicians and our guest today and best bud of mine, Madeline Finn, is living proof it’s more something you get through than benefit from.

Madeline was scouted for American Idol, went through the stages, and got that golden ticket, but it’s not something she’d suggest for someone’s career. 

Madeline shares the things that fulfill her musically and spiritually in this week's episode. Though opening up to opportunities is something Madeline believes in and encourages, the most important work has to do with an internal shift.

Plus! Special announcement that Madeline Finn recently joined the SFG coaching team and is teaching DAW 101. If you’re someone who just needs a little help getting through the DAW barrier to make the music you want, Madeline has you covered.

Read the podcast transcript below...

 

Mike Meiers 0:00
Hey, I'm Mike Meiers and this is the song rank for guitar podcast which is geared to support songwriters and producers to gain confidence and turn pro. I bring on industry experts to help you improve and monetize your skills, Engage better in the writing process, and build healthy habits to create a sustainable career that you love. Caffeinated, inspirational, conversational.

What's up friends Mike Myers here with the song rank for guitar Podcast, episode number 73. Our first ever in person interview live in studio with Madeline Finn, which is amazing because Madeline has been one of my best friends for a very, very long time. Huge collaborator. She's a coach now at songwriting for guitar helping people understand their their DAW and how to use it as a creative force in their songwriting. And she has a story to tell, and we're gonna get into all of it, how we've met, things that we've collaborated with, you know, one of our songs has been the most synched ever, you know, for us, I think, at least we're at now. It's six, which is crazy with that one song, but we're gonna get into all of it. This is an episode, I'm surprised that it was super productive. Because when you get us into a room, we can talk and talk and talk and talk, but the substance of this conversation is so good. So we're gonna dive into it. Episode number 73. With Madeline Finn

I first met you in 2012. Is that really what it was? Yeah, that's what it was. Well, you were how old were you? i

Madeline Finn 1:55
That was the year I graduated high school.

Mike Meiers 1:56
God damn. So I was 28. I probably was a teen or maybe I was 27. I'm trying to think I can't do math right now. But I think it was somewhere around their heart. But that was that was your that was your CD release show. And remember, because Funny story, I remember the band that we stayed with, like they got everybody got super drunk, because they were like the kind of like the bros. Exit Cleveland. Yeah. Oh, my God. They were and they were sweet. But they when we would play shows, but yeah, they were, you know, everybody downstairs got really drunk, we didn't really get drunk, we were just like, I remember just being like, I just can't go to bed. You know, being on tour is weird, because I remember just all of us crammed in a bathroom, brushing our teeth together, you know, because you do all the bodily things to get together. And that's the thing as a band, you're doing all the bodily things together. And I just remember, they got so drunk, and we were just like, we're not drunk. And then one of the band members brought a girl with them. They didn't do anything in bed just like they were sleeping. And then he woke up having like an asthma attack a little bit. But it was like a mixture of an asthma attack and wanting to projectile vomited a little bit on her on the window. And she was just like, and I remember we all woke up and we're just like, Okay, time to go. And that was it. And then the next day, we moved on to the state of Indiana, because that's how you go Ohio, Indiana, Tennessee. Then we went down to Atlanta. And then we did so I remember just being you then there. And I and then I think that's when Instagram was a thing. And I followed you. Yeah. And then that was it. And then right around 16 or 17 2017. That sounds about right. Sounds about right. Where it was just like you were in a class. I was like, oh. And I remember watching to like, you know, as you creep Instagram what you were doing, I was like, and it was, what was cool was that you were still doing the thing. And that was and the fact that you were in a class about licensing. I was like, Oh, you're trying to learn more. So it's like, I didn't know you. But I felt like I knew that you were also like, trying to understand more, and learn more, you understood the value of like, oh, there's always another thing. And so in then we just, you know, I was your accountability, buddy. No, I loved Yeah. And I and we were in me. I remember when you were on tour for a little bit. You were you would check in at the little hotels, in the breakfast areas.

Madeline Finn 4:26
Yep. And very on brand.

Mike Meiers 4:29
And then yeah, then we wrote a whole bunch of songs. Then we wrote more songs

Madeline Finn 4:33
and then those songs started getting played.

Mike Meiers 4:37
And then yeah, and we you know what started as like a cool friendship becomes like the thing where it's like how you're one of my best friends.

Madeline Finn 4:44
I love it. I love it and we work well together do which is so important. And we have a lot of fun. I think that's one of the things I appreciate about didn't say I was your best friend. Oh, you're you're awesome.

Mike Meiers 4:55
I was just hanging there. I was like you should add it in

Madeline Finn 5:00
Well, this is why I love our best friendship. I love our best friendship because I think so many friendships that also include a professional element. Yeah, there's a, there's a chance to lose the fun and to lose the joy and every time we write songs or record a podcast or on a Zoom meeting with professional people, yeah. I feel like I feel like I have somehow consumed like, an edible or something. Like I feel like all of a sudden I'm just laden with joy. It's

Mike Meiers 5:31
the sweetest thing to say to someone our friendships like

Madeline Finn 5:34
it is it is i It's wonderful. So it's just a I like that. We get to keep a lot of the

Mike Meiers 5:40
the joy. I love the fun. Your friendship is like an edible.

Madeline Finn 5:45
Put that on a pillow.

Mike Meiers 5:47
I want that crocheted on a pillow that needs to be crocheted on a pillow.

Madeline Finn 5:50
Did you do wait? No. Your Pittsburgh was showing for a second. Oh, what else? Hello?

Mike Meiers 5:54
pehla pehla. Hello.

Madeline Finn 5:56
I want to I want to embroider that on a pillow

Mike Meiers 5:58
pillow pillow. My Pittsburgh ease shows through with Pella. What else? Occasionally?

Madeline Finn 6:04
How do you say milk? So I see milk. You say no.

Mike Meiers 6:07
I say milk. What's the Pittsburgh use for milk Milk? Milk? Milk. I could see thing Yeah, I could see boy went that die as a milk. He ran into a house caught his heart Joker shakin house rocker. And if you are from Pittsburgh, but yeah, first in person podcast is off to a good start, I'd say yep. And that was one of the fun things about moving to Nashville. I was like, Oh my god. Maddie lives in Nashville. She can come over to my studio all the time. We can write, we can hang. And it's great. But I want to get into, like some of the things you do songwriting wise, because what I find interesting, and I love talking to people that I can tell. Music was always the first thing. And they never had they even if they entertained like I did for a little bit like I went to graphic design school, like the plan B, the plan B doesn't last that long. And it's always like a different version of plan A and figuring it out. And you've done some cool shit. Like you've done lots of you have I'm glad you think so. Okay, so seriously. So it's like, so let's get into it. So you start your own heist, you have a high school band. And I played it I opened up in was it Kent, Ohio, Ohio. Yep. But then that dissolves. And then you start another band that does some really amazing since.

Madeline Finn 7:33
So basically, what happened is that show was that show it was at that venue that the band and boy that I'm assuming you're talking about was like, We need a lead singer. Do you know anybody? And I was like, hi. I can sing if me. And we started just kind of writing. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, it just skyrocketed, and it still pays my car payment.

Mike Meiers 8:01
That is what I think is so cool. It's

Madeline Finn 8:03
just Well, it's because we were dumb in a lot of ways. And we like never, like, got deals or anything. We were just like not pursuing. We didn't know what a publishing deal was. We didn't know any of these things. So we could have made a lot more money in the moment. But it was like playing the long game. Because what ended up happening is we, because we didn't have any deals, we didn't sign any of our rights away. Yeah, here we are a decade later, maintaining all of them, and we get paid for all of it. And it's crazy.

Mike Meiers 8:38
And you still release music and the plays are so high. And that's and that adds to it.

Madeline Finn 8:44
It's I don't know why. But that band just like,

Mike Meiers 8:49
focus there. Also, I still listen now.

Madeline Finn 8:52
It's fun. We're actually in the process of writing a new EP, right? Oh, so.

Mike Meiers 8:56
So you have that and I like how, you know, at, you know, 2829 30 I was like, I'm figuring this out. And I'm like, wait,

Madeline Finn 9:07
no, I'm gonna be 30 this year.

Mike Meiers 9:11
You can still say right now you're in your late 20s. I am in my late I right now. I'm at the point where I have to say I'm I'm in my late 30s. So it's like, but then what's interesting because you go from something like that, which has, you know, that sort of DIY ethic, you know, 100% controlled, and then I know you and I have talked about this where it's like, and then you do American Idol. And, to me, that's like, I think it was so cool. Where you were like, Hey, I did it. Yeah, I did it. Cool. That was

Madeline Finn 9:49
the thing. That was the thing. I didn't Yeah, still unpacking the trauma, but

Mike Meiers 9:55
it's just it seems like you know, it's for some people that seems like that would be the dream. Oh,

Madeline Finn 10:01
yeah, that'd be great. You know, it's one of those things that because basically so what happened is I dropped out of college, I was in college for hospitality management. I dropped out when I was 19. to tour with envoy full time, that's what I did. And then, you know, I had really lost all sense of self care. And I had lost all sense of the fact that I had to not only maintain my career, but also my spiritual, mental, emotional,

Mike Meiers 10:30
that's a very grown up thing to think about.

Madeline Finn 10:32
Right. And we'll, it's, we call it the gift of desperation. Right. So towards it was our last year touring, we didn't know it was gonna be our last year we were fielding record label, like deals from fearless and epitaph. And we had all these people being like, alright, like, let's do it. And then I, my eating disorder just tanked me, like Tang to me. So I wound up in treatment. And while I'm in treatment, I can't talk. I can't do anything. And my body is literally like, sweetie, no. And so when the band falls apart, and it mainly just, you know, our drummer moved to Colorado, I was in treatment, they started another project that started doing well, and then I came out of treatment with nothing. Yeah. And so I got to this point of like, okay, I've got so much identity wrapped up in this. And so it was interesting, because it took me until very recently to learn how to kind of like, embody it and love it and see it as a part of who I am and what I do, but not the whole. Yeah. Which is hard. But so then I started the whiskey hollow, which was, I don't know why, but I got into like, Americana and Southern rock.

Mike Meiers 11:49
I think it's just a thing because I did the same thing. Like a folk band. Yep. Because you're like, I'm not I'm gonna do this. And then there's something the folk calling pools and you get a guy with an upright bass, and then you get a violinist and you get like,

Madeline Finn 12:02
and you do it. But so that, you know, and it was during that project that I got approached for American Idol. Yeah, the American Idol thing was crazy. It was really strange. I didn't I turned them down. So I actually don't know if I'm gonna talk about it. Anyway, I thought I'm pretty open about it. So I got head hunted for that. Right. So I got an email from a producer, saying, We saw this video. Can you come audition? And I was like, No. It was like, that sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. You know, because I think there's also some pride involved. Yeah, right. There was this like, Oh, I'm too cool for American, you know? And then they were like, well, we were touring at the time. Yeah, we were playing in Nashville. And they're like, Well, we're actually going to be in Nashville on these dates if you're round. And I said, I am. So I saw it as a serendipitous. Yeah. synchronistic moment. And I said, Okay, I'll do it. And then it just started rolling. And I learned so much about myself through the process, but it was really hard. Yeah, like, it was really difficult.

Mike Meiers 13:08
And you You made it like, then you get the as they say, the the

Madeline Finn 13:12
golden ticket, is it a golden ticket? If it's a golden ticket? And then they take it from you. You don't even get to keep it.

Mike Meiers 13:19
Oh, so it's just one ticket. And it just goes to each person when they're done. They're like, honestly, I'm not

Madeline Finn 13:24
surprised. I would not be shocked if that's what it is. I think they have like four or five and they give you the ticket and you're like, oh, but yeah, so I got the golden ticket. I went to Hollywood week, I made it all the way to the very last round in Hollywood. We can I got cut right before the top 24. Yeah, crazy.

Mike Meiers 13:43
Just golden ticket. It's just like, but I love that. You've done both ends of the spectrum where it's like the the super DIY of just like no, no, no, no. And then something like that. Oh, yeah. Which is an experience that both are, which is an experience in itself.

Madeline Finn 13:59
Yeah. Yeah. I think having the like, multitude of experience and like just saying yes. And kind of being open to whatever is happening. Like, it's as I've gone through all these experiences, I start to learn, like what actually feels in alignment and what actually makes sense for me, like if you asked me to do American Idol again, there's no way I'm actually too old now. But like, no way. Do you think 2828 is the age cap. But you know if anybody ever asked me to do any sort of competition, yeah. Like I don't really even do competitions because I don't I think one of the biggest issues with music culture, yeah. Is this competitive nature, this unhealthy competitive nature. It's cool to have accountability buddies and being like, how many songs did you use? But I don't love the competition stuff, which is funny because then I got a team, you know, so after American Idol, I started doing my solo stuff. Yeah. And I got management and like it all kind of started to just Just come, come. Yeah. Which everybody told me was gonna happen that I had to sit and like, Wait, yeah. Because I was like, No, I can go get it. I can do it. And it just came. So it comes and things start to happen. And I just get to this point where I'm like, okay, no competitions. We're not doing it. I tell the whole team. No, I'm not doing no competition. And then my manager without telling me enters me in the John Lennon songwriting contest. And I win. Like, actually, oh my gosh, yeah, it was talking about synchronicity. Let's talk about this. Okay. I found out I want on Valentine's Day. Oh, which is the day we're recording this podcast. Okay, I found that out. I was with grace. Yeah, it was 2020 is 2020. I found out in February, man and that crazy.

Mike Meiers 15:56
pandemics fly by just flying. They just fly by. But that's

Madeline Finn 16:01
it. Yes. So then so I found out I won the John Lennon songwriting contest contest on Valentine's Day. So literally 2020

Mike Meiers 16:10
Like, no, no, no, no contests. I secretly did you go like, wow, I had to because it was the perfect song.

Madeline Finn 16:19
You know, it was funny. It was the it was the love song contest. And I have a song that you don't love me like, I love you. It's like an anti love song. And they loved it. They were just like, This is so different. You know? It because I didn't write it in mind for that. Yeah, I wasn't trying to check boxes. I just was being authentic with what was happening. Well, I

Mike Meiers 16:39
like that not trying to check boxes, because I think some people songwriting feels like that. Where it's just like, check, check, check, check, check. But meanwhile, it's like, authentic matters.

Madeline Finn 16:49
Yeah, I think so. Because I think I would say can I let my own just swear? Yeah. Okay. I think I think as humans, especially in this day and age, we have a bullshit detector. Yeah, I can tell when somebody's feeding I like, if I don't believe you know, like, like, if you're like, if you're singing to me about how you like, doing all these things and stuff, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, would you actually do that? And they're like, Well, no, I'm like, okay, like, that's fine. You can write about these things. But I always talk about, like, so we write. We write stuff like this all the time. Like we wrote a love song about my grandparents. That was not totally accurate. But it still came from an authentic place of like, you know what I mean, I think

Mike Meiers 17:34
because I heard the story. And then I like took the story to another level of just like, because I was like, oh, yeah, but it came back from when you were telling me I was like, Oh, that sparked an idea. Yes, exactly.

Madeline Finn 17:44
And so instead of and we weren't like, Okay, we want to do this. And these are the buzzwords we need. And this is how it goes. And that song is the song that has been, I think placed the most, right, crazy was like five or six times, right? And this is, and this is the thing where I'm like, right then and there, that's bullshit detector. Like, I think when you're songwriting, you have to have some, some bit of depth. Yeah, even if it's not, like, even if you're just going, Whoa, you gotta have some level of depth, I

Mike Meiers 18:14
gotta feel I gotta feel just even, like, if you

Madeline Finn 18:18
find joy in what you're doing. If you find joy in, you know, creating a song that goes, whoa, embody the joy, bring it in to the room, instead of trying to make it sterile. And, you know,

Mike Meiers 18:33
but always tell when someone has a fucking miserable, they don't want to be there. And they just hate the thing. You know, from your start to like, all your different things is shown that you just love the process of music in various forms. Yes. And it's the same way. For me. It's just like I, you know, goes to show that we did the thing where we went quickly to school to be like, Oh, maybe this and we're like, oh, no, I'm out of here. And we just left. Because it was like, Plan B is never a good thing.

Madeline Finn 19:04
Yeah, I mean, I think you can learn a lot. Meaning like, I think having a plan B, if you don't have a plan B, you don't have a plan B to be able to let go of Yeah, you know, I'm saying like I think have, it's like the thing that gives us the opportunity to make the decision for ourselves is having a plan B. And also like, I, I'm going back to school this year, oh, they're gonna tell you this. No. So I'm going back to school in September for carpentry. So because not as a Plan B, for that for the first time in my life. This is something that I think will add to my life. This is something that I think like, because we want to buy a house eventually, right? My wife and I, and we want to kind of get something that we can make our own. And so having the skills that the state of Tennessee will pay for. It's completely free. It's a pro, it's a free program. And it's also like I can do more. It's just nice to have things that are not music all the time right so I'm not saying that like you can't do anything else right? But is when you when you approach music from a space of like just the sheer love for yeah and the joy and the like your it just takes on a life of its own that's so beautiful and then it frees up space when you trust it to like when you trust the process and you trust the journey a frees up space to be able to do things like I don't know become a carpenter and you know build furniture yeah and just hang out and then you know tour for the summer

Mike Meiers 20:40
Hey, it's Mike and I just wanted to jump in the middle of this episode to let you know that starting February 24. I'm going to be hosting a three day songwriting immersive with my good friend artists and songwriting for guitar coach Laney Dion. So if you're someone who has been frustrated on where to focus on your songwriting, if you're stuck with so many unfinished songs, if you're even confused on where to start, this is something for you. In these three days. These live three days not pre recorded, but live, we're going to give you the roadmap that you need to understand what you specifically need to work on in your guitar work when it comes to your songwriting, what you need to do to get your head in the right direction, so that this class will help you become an unstoppable songwriting force. So if you have not claimed your ticket yet go to songwriting for guitar.com to claim it. Remember, everything kicks off February 24. This is going to be three days in a row live. And this is going to be interactive, you're going to get a chance to ask us questions. So remember, don't let yourself fall into this February slump, where you let your goals kind of fall to the wayside. If you're struggling, if you're feeling frustrated, and you're unsure, you've got all these unfinished songs, this is the perfect time to kick it into gear to get some guidance to get some help. So go to Song rain for guitar.com to claim your ticket.

Madeline Finn 22:03
Who's to say and this is my one of my favorite singers whom I don't know what's good or bad. Right? Yeah. So it who's to say that like me going to carpentry school and you know, working on some, but I end up working on a producer's house. He's like, I've heard your music. Let's let's write Yeah, talk about things. And it's about sowing seeds and seeing it all as connected as, as opposed to seeing it separate and vilifying one over the other.

Mike Meiers 22:27
And also, again, that just seems like you're trusting that eventually the process will happen. And you're not because that you realize that there's no, the door closes at 9pm. And music won't open. And yeah, it's just like the music store is always open. It's there's no, you don't have to force it. You don't have to force it, and then probably has a lot more ease to the day as opposed to just slick.

Madeline Finn 22:53
I don't know, have you had one of the biggest pieces of advice? I got this one I was on American Idol. I got this all the time was get out of your own way. Have you had people tell you that and you're so I was like, Great, how? But how do I get on my wife? And you realize that in itself? How do I get out of my own way? Right? It's about letting go. Yeah, it's about letting go. And it's about trust. And it's about attunement and intuition and genuine alignment with your effort. Yeah, you know, I could talk about this all day.

Mike Meiers 23:29
But and, oh, we'll just do multiple you're here. That's 1000s 7000 podcast. Well, this is what's great about, you know, you being here. You can just drive on over coffee, like, let's talk. But that to me, is one reason why I think we work well, because that's my view. There's no, you know, I remember and you probably remember when you would date people and they'd be like, so when does when they want to know when is it going to happen? And you're like, what does that mean? Like? When is it going to? I'm like, there is no, like set date? It's going to happen incrementally and slowly. Yeah,

Madeline Finn 24:07
I would even argue that it's already happening. Oh, you know, so this is the thing, and this is just my like Buddhist shit, you know, coming out cool. But we're not promised tomorrow. We're not promised that what we have to do is deconstruct this idea of what it means for it to happen. Right? It's like, we think that it's this linear process, you do this and then you do this, and then you do this, and then you do this and then you're happy with where you're at. That's, it's a lie. It's a straight up lie. Like you don't find it. Like we always look right around the corner. Right? We're always looking right around the corner. The next thing that's where I'm going to find true happiness. But what we forget is that the only place joy can really exist is in the present moment. Yeah. Right. Because if you think about all of your most joyful memories, right? You're probably present. You're probably in them 100%. And so I know that's how it feels for me in music. When I when you and I get into a flow and we write a song in 20 minutes, that's a total banger. Yeah, you know, it's because we're being present. It's not because of any other thing. And so I think I love the idea of, of kind of getting rid of the the narrative that it's going to happen at all. It's already happened. Yeah, like, just just the intention, like us sitting here recording a podcast it we're doing it. Yeah, we're doing it and doing it. And caring is enough. And trusting that like, if you continue to have moments of present, doing and present intention, those moments add up, right? And don't necessarily come to any big equation, right? They don't equal something. But they add up and you have more joy, and you have more presence, and you have personality that attracts like minded people, and you just start to grow. And

Mike Meiers 26:00
that's where more kick ass operates. Yes. And as opposed to not enjoying the thing. And always just waiting, waiting. And then you realize one day that you're waiting for literally not like, it's not going to, you know, going to be like a firework moment, just like,

Madeline Finn 26:17
I've made it. You think with American Idol, that would have been it? Yeah. I was like, Oh, this is it. And it felt great. You know? Yeah. But I always say that, like, I've heard in our so I'm a I'm a meditation instructor too. So I I'm trained in Tera, Vaada, and Buddhism, and I facilitate and do those things. And there's a saying that, like, if your happiness is of this world, the world can take it away. And if the happiness is not of this world, the world can't take it away. And my like, religious trauma sometimes goes like, but really what it means is like, if your happiness isn't dependent on whether you get that placement, you get that production deal, you get that publishing company interested in you, if your happiness isn't surrounded by that, you open yourself up for so many more opportunities you weren't even looking for, you know, yeah. Oh, if you would have told me that you and I would like have written all these songs that just are getting all these crazy, weird placements? I don't I never thought that that was going to be what? Yeah, brought me into the same space. Like, what is the likelihood that you and I who met in 2012? Yeah, reconnect in 2017. Start writing songs, get target placements, get, you know, network TV it? If you're not open, if I would have been like, no, there's only one way? Oh, you know, if there's only one way to do this, and it's got to be my own stuff. Because I was like, I didn't like CO writing with people. You were my first co writes. So, ya know, it's interesting. It's really It's,

Mike Meiers 27:55
well, you know, I think it's, a lot of people stand in their way of the thing that they want to do. Because, yes, they have a very, I don't know, maybe it's school, too. We think it's like this that we go here and then here and then here, and then here, and then here that we assume music is going to happen this way. And musics gonna knock on my door and say, you've got this and then I'm going to do and meanwhile, music is there all these other opportunities that are staring us in the face that we're totally blind?

Madeline Finn 28:21
Because we get so set in the idea that it has to happen a certain way. Which, if we get let go of the idea that it has to happen, and just remember that it's already happening. Yeah, like, that's, that's where I have found the most success and joy and like fulfillment in my music career, when that's my mentality. I'm like, it's already happening. And it allows me to applaud and root for other people. It allows me to, like, find more confidence in what I do. Because I'm not constantly wanting it to be different. You know, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's a beautiful practice.

Mike Meiers 28:58
That's why we're like, hey, Maddy, why don't you be

Madeline Finn 29:02
coach? I like doing that. I like helping people. I

Mike Meiers 29:04
think the fact that you started teaching, too, when I was teaching, yeah. And we talked about teaching, and you didn't have a, you know, some people that teach they kind of go like, I gotta do it. So this is the end. It's like, yes, it was part of my job. But I also enjoyed the satisfaction of seeing people have those small wins those light bulb moments, regardless if it was kids, adults, and you got that too. And that was exciting. And I was like, Oh, that's amazing. So when it came to me starting this company, and then being like, oh, you know, if I was going to add and you know, we've you know, Josh and you know, Heather Evans is there and then Laney is there and then I was like, Maddie, Maddie and what I love is your you're going to I feel like you are so good. Like you also do a lot for songs since you're constantly writing right? Recording, writing recording, like all day. And so the idea that you can guide songwriters on Super, you know, just like entry level basics that are just like, you know, can seem so daunting because I feel like you're, you know, I don't know, did you do a lot of recording?

Madeline Finn 30:19
No, I hated it. I hated recording. Yes, it wasn't until it became a necessity. Okay, right, because I got to this point where song Finch started to just kind of take over my life. And I started writing custom songs for the people and doing like we're doing a whole deck of demos for a publishing company.

Mike Meiers 30:35
I love the fact that people still don't realize that custom songwriting is such a big thing. It's great.

Madeline Finn 30:39
It's awesome. I love it. Well, there's a lot. I don't know, again, it goes back to this. Like, there's more than one way. Yeah. And so if what I try to do when I do those custom songs is I approach it with the mentality of like, I get to be a part of this memory for someone. And like, how epic is that? That's pretty bad. That's what we start music. Yeah, wanting, we want to be a part of people's experience. And we want to express and, and share. So the fact that I get to do that is awesome. And I love doing it so much that I had to figure out how to do it for myself. Because when I first started song finished, like 2016 2017, when it first started, I was having my friend record, I would write the song, and I would go to his studio, and I would record a song finish. And I would pay him half of what I got from song. And so it got to this point where I was also just trying to be mindful of my own financial situation, and that it would save me a lot of money if I just did this myself. Yep. And so I just learned through a lot of trial and error and was using GarageBand for ever. And then I finally was like, I'm going to commit to this. So I bought logic. And I have not looked back.

Mike Meiers 31:50
I feel there is a moment when especially when people use GarageBand. I'm like you have to get logic. And they're like, What if I

Madeline Finn 31:57
just no logic? Nope, I was talking to a client. Literally yesterday, I think about this where it was like, We were literally a being the differences. And it feels like you have handcuffs on when you're in GarageBand. Like it feels like there's like there's literally not much you

Mike Meiers 32:12
can It's like driving with a blindfold on 100. And just being like, yeah, because you're so many not zero visual. So you're just kind of like, I guess this is

Madeline Finn 32:21
nobility to teen vocals no bill and like, that was the thing. I was hating when I would record GarageBand I was like, Oh, I like everybody needs a little tuning. I think everybody needs tuning. I think it's really important. You know, because you can get the perfect emotive take, and it might be a little pitchy. Yeah, I would rather fix the pitch than change it to a lesson motive tape. Yeah. And so when I found out that I could tune right and logic, I was like, thank goodness, because it was game changing. And then as soon as I, you know, learned how to tune I was like, Oh, my gosh, what else can I do? Yeah. And that's when I started incorporating buses. That's when I started incorporating, like, the drummer situations. And like, it's awesome.

Mike Meiers 33:02
And that's what so many people are so scared. Because it is daunting. It's intimidating. And it's there, like why could pay someone else to and you can, but you have a limit? Like,

Madeline Finn 33:15
well, yeah, and it's also it's like, if you're going to pay somebody, you're gonna pay them a good bit. Yeah. Because, again, like it's talking about value. And obviously, we value it. If we're paying for somebody to do it, we're valuing it. So why wouldn't we find the basics so that we can invest our money in other places? You know, I'd like I would rather invest in like, I don't know, like a new guitar, or I'd rather invest in, you know, gas to gas to get to my next gig, or what

Mike Meiers 33:46
if we demo the song, you realize, Wow, this is a song. Sure is the song and I'm just gonna let it go. As opposed to finding after you pay a lot of money. Oh, I'm now discovering the song. And I don't like it. It's not a good song. Yeah, it's not

Madeline Finn 34:01
good. Or the thing that has been so game changing is when you can hear it. I feel like that's so many of us. We can hear what we want. Yeah, in our head, but we don't know how to make our fingers and mine. Put it on to draw. Yeah. And so when you can learn to do that you're not sitting back and forth with somebody being like, no, no, no. Can you make it more like this? Can you do like this? It's such a time saver. Yeah. Because you can go in and do the pre production yourself. And then take it to your producer if you really want to like up it, you know, and they have more of a direction instead of you just being like, here. Damn. Yeah, I think it's it's been it's been game changing for me to actually understand logic and be able to use it. But I

Mike Meiers 34:41
love that you're a songwriter that uses it actively for multiple school things. Yeah. So that when people come to you, and they're like, I have no idea where to start. You can start them you can meet them where they are at that ground floor and build which is going to be I think it's a huge huge tool for songwriters that they forget.

Madeline Finn 35:02
Yeah. And like even, I use it as a songwriting tool to, like if I can even just put like a, like, I use it for melody work sometimes, like, I have my chord progression, and I have my lyrics and I know, and even if I'm not going to record it and keep it, I can record a track and play it and play with the melody. Yeah, and figure out, okay, what do I actually want this to be, and I can print, you know, the pre chorus sounds great, but I don't like the melody in the bridge. So I can, you know, just keep trying different things in it and see what fits. It's like a loop pedal.

Mike Meiers 35:35
And I think it's just one of the best song rank tools that people forget about. And especially if you can capture something, and be able to detach yourself and listen to it as opposed to feeling I need to play it every single day, like, you know, think about bpm. So I love the fact that this is, to me, this is going to be so helpful for songwriters to be like, oh, oh, yeah, I need to know this. And to have someone that's patient that is like, Hey, we're just gonna go step by step and not, don't worry about this, you know, and it's able to meet them where they are and guide them along the way is huge,

Madeline Finn 36:07
so big. I like I'm kind of like, I wish I would have not been

Mike Meiers 36:12
well, yeah. Because we understand I think that's what's great, too. It's someone that isn't going to be like, Oh, I understood from day one, like, because we all sat there looking at our screens, and just being like,

Madeline Finn 36:24
Yeah, and you get it was this two times, and then you maybe get it right, and then you get it wrong. 10 times again, and and that's

Mike Meiers 36:30
the thing, too. People think, oh, that's bad. But it's like, oh, no, no, no, that's just part of the whole process.

Madeline Finn 36:36
Exactly. Exactly. It's, I like to picture logic as a big sandbox, there's so much you can do, I love that there's so much you can do and you just go when you play and like, but you have to take the pressure off of it. You know, you have to take the pressure off of it needing to be perfect, you can just play with it. It's a whole It's like another instrument. It's super interesting and really fun. And you don't have to understand any of the weird sciency shit behind it. You know, you can just like, here's, here's your permission to not have to understand logic in order to play with it. You know, it's totally, totally not how it has to work. So

Mike Meiers 37:13
ditch the lab coats, digit. lab coats has been like, Yes, this is 2.5 DB. I don't know what that means. Yes,

Madeline Finn 37:23
can I get to the drums a little darker than I am maybe adjustment and you just don't need it. You just don't need it. And maybe at some point, yeah, you'll get there. You know, like maybe at some point, you'll start to understand what it means to have those Dupo DB like you'll understand, but you

Mike Meiers 37:42
don't have to be that doesn't have to be the starting point. You

Madeline Finn 37:44
don't have to know that to start playing. It's the same way of like you didn't have to know the solo to Stairway to Heaven. Right? You didn't have to know that to pick up a guitar. You could just pick up a guitar and you could start it's Yeah. And it's the same thing.

Mike Meiers 38:01
So good. Well, good. We're gonna do more of these. Yay. Thanks for being here, friend.

Madeline Finn 38:08
Thanks for having me. Shit

Mike Meiers 38:18
And that does it for this week's episode. It was edited produced by Chris values. I'm Mike Myers. Thanks for listening.