Episode 75: Radical Change for Radical Growth

business collaboration ego feel growth insecurity podcast song songwriters songwriting Mar 15, 2023

Episode 75: Radical Growth for Radical Change

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What causes some people to grow at a faster rate in their songwriting career? Here at SFG, we believe it's all about collaboration, and in this podcast episode, we explore how radical growth happens because of it.

Mike Meiers and COO of Songwriting for Guitar, Heather Taylor, dive deep into discussing people's resistance to collaboration and talk about three top reasons why. Along the way, the conversation takes a personal turn as Mike shares his own insecurities and emotions on this subject.

Listen to how their personal experiences of working with others in their own music and business at Songwriting for Guitar helped them develop new skills and elevate their work beyond what they would be able to without collaboration. The conversation touches on the importance of recognizing one's strengths and weaknesses, and how collaboration can help individuals stay in their "zone of genius" while accomplishing more as a team.

Overall, the episode offers insights into the benefits and challenges of collaboration for growth and success, and three reasons why we might be resistant to it. Join Mike and Heather as they share their own stories and explore how collaboration can help you achieve radical growth for radical change.

Read the transcript below... 

Mike Meiers 0:00
Hey, I'm Mike Meiers and this is the song rank for guitar podcast which is geared to support songwriters and producers to gain confidence and turn pro. I bring on industry experts to help you improve and monetize your skills, Engage better in the writing process, and build healthy habits to create a sustainable career that you love. Caffeinated, inspirational, conversational.

Hey, friends, Mike here with the song rank for guitar Podcast, episode number 75. Radical growth equals radical change. Now, I was meditating one morning, as I usually do, I more I tried to do I should say, of why not always go with it, but I try to be super consistent. And this thought kept on reoccurring in my head. What causes others to grow at a faster rate in their career, especially when it relates to songwriting, and others that essentially kind of like, stay a little stale, if not plateau, and then fall off and start to backtrack? Well, we're going to talk about this with Heather. And there's a moment where as I kind of, like, start diving into this, I realize that it's an earthing something that I'm feeling. So really, this is a podcast that kind of goes deep into my feelings of a little bit of my insecurity, too. So it's about radical growth, radical change, and how maybe in filming this, it was kind of reminding myself that I have established a great team in moments where I don't feel like there's radical growth or radical change, and I'm not feeling too good about myself. So this is a very real kind of deep dive podcast. So here we go. Episode 75 Radical growth equals radical change.

Alright, everyone, calm down, calm down, calm down. I know, the clap. I know. I know. So good. So good. The crowd that we have here is huge other. Like, it's insane how many people turned out for this recording?

Heather Taylor 2:20
We know we know you're excited. But can you please just like keep the keep the level down a little

Mike Meiers 2:27
bit, just a little bit, I did little bit,

Heather Taylor 2:29
and then we'll tell you when you can go while we want.

Mike Meiers 2:33
Goodness. But I'm pumped to talk about this. Because I know this morning, I was thinking about this a lot. And and maybe, I think, thinks in the morning, because it's that time where the brain is like, you know, I do that like meditation on my time. And for some reason, I was really thinking about, man, what makes people grow at a faster rate, whether it be their songwriting collaborations, but also there, you know, for me, I related always back to like songwriting and building my business, I kind of see them as both two, they're not like, they're not like separate because like the songwriting is still business in itself. It's different kind and then songwriting for guitars a different business, but they're similar in how I view building a team. Because for the longest time, I wrote, on my own, I wrote songs on my own, I was starting this on my own. I was doing this all on my own. But the idea once I started to embrace collaboration with other people in writing, my skills got better. They had skills that were way better. And it was like elevating the song. And as soon as I started to add in, more people in summer and guitar that could take things that it was like, not sure, or they could help. I feel like you came at a point to where it was like, there was something like, the way you describe is like this, like, there was partial, there was a thing there.

Heather Taylor 4:03
Something was established for sure enough that I got it that I understood what was going on.

Mike Meiers 4:09
That's the thing too, like you could see. But when you came in, then things got like, cool. We started to move and I realized like, Oh, my goodness, I was thinking I had to get this to this to this level. That was if I kept on thinking in my head, I can only add people when I get here. Hmm. I don't know if I'd still be doing this because I think I'd be overworked and I think I'd just be the opportunities and the growth wouldn't happen if I didn't have you come in if I didn't have a co writer come in. I'm really robbing myself of growth and them of growth because then they develop the skills you've developed your skills. Oh, no, those are just like those were my thoughts this morning.

Heather Taylor 4:54
Those are really good thoughts. I feel like the concept really translates from I mean both Things are businesses, as a songwriter, as a musician, you need to know that you are a business and start to treat it like that. And most businesses that succeed, unless you are a one man operation making under and it's like a hobby. You know, most businesses collaborate with people, the most successful businesses collaborate with people. So once you start seeing yourself as business, you kind of understand, Oh, I gotta collaborate, in order to do what I want to do. You

Mike Meiers 5:30
have to collaborate. And to me too, there are days because I think of in the terms of collaboration there times where I've gotten to a right and honestly, I kind of feel like shit, I kind of feel not super, like energized,

Heather Taylor 5:44
not every day is a winner. And then that

Mike Meiers 5:47
person comes in with a great idea. But they're picking up a little bit of those days where I'm just like, dragging, and they're kind of lifted, like, Hey, it's okay. Don't worry about like, we got this, we're gonna figure it out. And then I'm like, Yeah, you know, we will. And they're there to kind of be that little boost. And there are days where it's the same thing is like, I wake up and I'm like, Cool, here we go. Man, this is great. But knowing that there are aspects of my business that are being worked on, by you, by, you know, in terms of we've we've brought another person to these doing back, it's like, okay, it doesn't that not putting all the pressure on me like I've got to take care of all, if anything, as it grows, I've been looking for more areas where I have to let go and be like, this is something I should not be done. I should be letting this go, relinquishing control, let go, let go, let go. And I'm like, maybe I gotta let go.

Heather Taylor 6:48
It's what I think we refer to as the zone of genius. And it Gay Hendricks and Gay Hendricks was the person that wrote the big leap, you recommended that book to me. But that's where he coined the phrase, zone of genius. So we keep on kind of referring back to that. So if you have somebody in their zone of genius, then that's their strength. And that's where they can really thrive. And once you recognize that, and once they recognize that, then that's, that's their role, and you need to support them, encourage them as much as possible, so that you can be in your own zone of genius. And that more stuff will get done overall, and everybody will be happier overall to it's beautiful,

Mike Meiers 7:29
I love Yeah, it's just like, that book is so good. And when I read, I was like, he's right, this thing that you do read, because that's where you're going to excel. That's where it's natural when you're starting something and you're like, why don't do this, this, this, this, this, this this? So I should master everything in that area? And then maybe I'll let people in, and maybe then it will grow. And maybe then but it's actually no, that's actually where it won't grow. And you're gonna be doing everything yourself. And eventually, you're gonna burn yourself out and you're going to collapse under, I don't know the weight of your own ego thinking that you can do it yourself. And I guess that's the question, why do people? Why is there so much resistance in this, like in writing with other people in? If you're building something? Is it because you feel like it's so precious? Like the business is precious? The song is precious? Is it a little bit of that?

Heather Taylor 8:20
Could be, could be there. I feel like that. Like this could be a ton of different things. And everybody. I feel like whoever's listening right now, like, take a second and think about like, what, what is it for you? I think some people might just be a little scared, a little shy, maybe not confident in what they actually have to offer. Maybe they don't really understand where their zone of genius is. Maybe they haven't gotten paid for it yet. So they don't really like feel validated in it yet.

Mike Meiers 8:47
Okay. So that's an issue. So they haven't gotten paid for it yet. You know what to sometimes Yeah, just that small little bit of just like, I have paid for this was this was a cool thing. Well, maybe, and then it entertains the idea. Well, maybe I could do more of this. Okay, that's awesome. And yeah, maybe it is an insecurity thing. Yeah. And you're right, there could be a number of things. And so maybe it's these three things, if I were to boil it down. So maybe it is number one, an insecurity thing. Like, I don't think I'm good enough. You know, there's probably a lot of people that are already doing the thing. And it's like, yeah, but they're not you. There are a lot of people doing the thing, but they're not you. They're doing it their way. And if you line up what you do and what they do, and what other people do, it's not going to line up perfectly. There's always going to be these little nuances and these little differences. So you just giving into that easy like, wow, you know, who am I is robbing people that could potentially be like, but that's what I wanted. That was the thing that I needed it. Oh, that's a bummer. You didn't do

Heather Taylor 9:50
it? Yeah, like imagine. Well, we can go to the other two points. But like, imagine if you didn't start songwriting for guitar, like I would be in a completely Print space right now, thank God that you started your business and believed in yourself because in that way, you changed my life. Right? So

Mike Meiers 10:08
I'm just, I'm just like, Okay, it's true, but, but also to like how you've just I think of when you started, and how your roles change and how just like, man, you are just on fire when it comes down to music, but it's like, also to like, we geek out about books. I'm like, did you read this book? Did you read this? Did you? Did you hear Brendon Burchard midweek motivation? Or is like daily fire? Motivation. Once you get that, it's just like, you're really just like, man, you just like you're kicking ass.

Heather Taylor 10:41
Thank you. Thank you. But it's, it comes back down to this is that it's the collaboration thing that I motivate you, you motivate me, like and on other days, so. But you know, like, what I two years ago? Would I have been, like, secure in this position? And doing everything that I've done? No, not yet. Because I didn't do it yet. Yeah, like I didn't have the daily, the daily grind to Yeah, I'm confident. So back to the first thing is the insecurity. It's like, sometimes you just have to work through your insecurity

Mike Meiers 11:13
and just be like, I just have to do it. Like some people are like, oh, I need to prep myself more, you can't do that much. You can do that prep. But at the end of the day, you have to be like the opportunity's there, and it's the thing that you feel like you got to do, you kind of have to do it. So insecurity is like number one. Number two, it is a little bit of the ego and the perfectionist of just like, I must wait until it is perfect. And it is wonderful. And you know what, but I don't want to give it to anyone on must hold on to this a little bit more, or this idea a little bit more, or, because I think when you joined, that was the first time I did like a live bootcamp. And so it was like five days, and it was a whole lot. I was like, Man, this is a lot. Like it's being live. It's answering questions, and it's moderating groups, and then it's going in making sure emails are going out. Okay, and then things gonna get lunch. And then I was just like, this is a plot. There is a brief moment where I was like, Yeah, but this is maybe this is just how it is, you just gotta suck it up, man. And, you know, part of me is just like, you know, when you do the other one, May, this is gonna be so much better. It's gonna be like, you know, you just got to do it. And then suddenly, when it was like the opportunity for you to come, I was like, Yeah, maybe. And so it was like, I had to either choose either I was going to allow my ego to be like, no, no, no, no, man, you could do it all. Like, you pay more, it'll be No, or you're just going to burn yourself out. And it's like, you have to allow in that collaboration sense to because they're going to bring ideas, they're going to bring a perspective, and you're going to kind of get your head out of your own ass,

Heather Taylor 12:55
get your head this, that's going to be the name of the podcast episode. Get your head out of your S.

Mike Meiers 13:00
We're meanwhile I'm just like a cause so dark outside, and you're just like, Mike, it's actually Sunny. You have to take your hair and I'm like, oh. But then that's the question is like, Am I that stubborn? And that just ignorant to be like, no, no, this is what it is? Or am I willing to be like, Listen, I don't know everything. I can't develop everything. If there's going to be growth, I'm going to have to accept other people's input, because that's where it's going to grow the most. I can't be in my own world. 24/7 It's probably the worst thing.

Heather Taylor 13:40
Yeah, and it's lonely, too. So it's,

Mike Meiers 13:42
it is lonely, because, I don't know, I could tell, you know, she was very supportive, where I'd be like, Man, Kajabi these, these emails I'm sending out, it's just I gotta I got it. It was just like, she was like, she was there. And she was like, Oh, but I have to admit, once you join the team, and then you got into the, it would always be like, the key jobs. It was like, I was saying it. Yeah, you're getting it. Okay, so it's just like some of that shared, it's hard when you're in that. In the same thing. If you're writing your own song, it's only your world, your perspective. That's it. And you're not allowing someone to also show you what's going well with it, but also highlight the areas that could improve. Man, that's a good song, but it might be a great song. If you allow someone else to share and allow them to take some of the reins.

Heather Taylor 14:37
I like it. Yeah, number two ego. So get your head out of your ass.

Mike Meiers 14:43
So it's like so we got insecurity, we got ego, and the other one where I see people just not have that collaboration in the nicest way. You got to be nice. You can't be a jerk. And I think that's the number one thing It stops people from collaboration is because they are unaware of what they're projecting and what they're carrying out others. And it's a vibe, and it's an attitude. And it's a look, that is the most unwelcoming feel I have ever seen. Yeah, you

Heather Taylor 15:19
have to understand, like, even if you know that you have good intentions, especially when you're first meeting somebody, or you know, you're you're both doing the hard thing, like just a little smile, or just a little something to know, for the other person to know, like, Hey, I'm still here, I'm still in it. I still care, or I care what I'm doing right now. And I care that you are doing this with me. Yeah, it can go such a long way. And sometimes people just forget that they that that helps. That's necessary.

Mike Meiers 15:51
I think zoom has also desensitized how we lay it because when I look at sometimes when there's zoom meetings with lots of people, I'm even then I'm still people watch her. And I'm looking at all the little boxes, whether I'm hosting or whether I'm just part of it. And I don't think people perhaps it's because we are watching this in our space, and we're super comfortable. And I think sometimes we're a little too comfortable. We're giving this look where

Heather Taylor 16:23
like triple chin

Mike Meiers 16:23
comfortable. Yeah, triple chin comfortable laid back foot. And that's just like, listen, imagine you were in a room with people? Would you be doing this? No. Would you sit up a little bit more? Would you give more of a like, Oh, I'm like a face of, say a face of caring. But I do mean that a face of just like paying attention. I think people just to the it's almost like they think they're watching a show. And they're watching something on TV. And in their dialogue in their communication with chats, it's so sometimes a little too cold, a little too dickish you could be better in your skills and be the most pro in your area and be like, Hey, I'm willing to compromise. I'm willing for it. Yeah, but the but what you're putting out and how you look right now, it looks like you just want to stab the person that does not give a sense of inviting, welcoming feeling. And that's what robs you of all the possible potential collaborations of building your team is because they're just like, they kind of seem like a jerk. I don't want to be on their team.

Heather Taylor 17:37
So yeah, why do you think that people? You think it's because they don't, they don't realize that it matters.

Mike Meiers 17:45
They've been in their world so much. There's been little input. And it probably in early on, there were probably people that were hinting, hinting. And they were like, Ah, I don't know what they don't know what they're talking about. I'm fine. And so it is a little bit of ignorance, and a little bit of coldness. But the longer you let that sit, the layer gets a little bit thicker, a little bit thicker, a little bit. If you start saying that I'm open to it, but the problem is everyone else. That's a good sign. It's a great indication that it's not everyone else that you're when I hear that, that to me is such a red flag when they're just like, well, you know, I've had but it's really them and data data and they're, they're all the problem. It's like, really, everyone's a problem. Yeah, I bet if we talked to those people, they're all gonna have the same answer and be like, actually, it's them right here.

Heather Taylor 18:47
But they've distanced themselves and desensitize themselves so much

Mike Meiers 18:50
so much that not only now that's the look that they give, too, because it's that standoffish that, that they say it's a tough, cool looking demeanor, but it's very callous, unwelcoming. And it's pretty much like, I just want to distance myself. I want to, I don't want to be around that.

Heather Taylor 19:11
Yeah, maybe it's a dis distrusting thing. It's like, maybe you're not seeing other people as people,

Mike Meiers 19:18
but the people that realize that then do something, that's where they see the most growth and the most change, but the ones that realize that and they're just like, they dig their fit feet an even deeper that's where nothing happens. And you could take all the classes in the world, you could take all the you can buy all the plugins, you could buy all the and learn all the tricks, but it's still just gonna be you. Because when you've got a pitch a business idea when you got to pitch a song, that's where the personality and the warmth and that's the thing I realized too when I had no skill where I felt like I didn't have skill in the beginning and writing. I was like I can be personable. I can be nice. And I realized, oh shit that goes far, because there's a lot of people that there's a lot of people that realize that, like, they haven't had that, or they've met a lot of egos. They've met a lot of people that have been cold. They've met a lot of people that have been slightly arrogant and like, stormed in, this is how we're gonna do it. This is or they're complaining like, this is work and, but to have somebody come in and be like, Hey, how's it going? Oh, me, me. Oh, I'm, I'm good. How are you? Oh, they're kind. They're, they're easy to get along with. Yeah, guess what they do. That's when they can build a great team. And so especially if you're someone that's in that, that insecure starting out, you can do one thing right now that can immediately open doors. And that's just been nice.

Heather Taylor 20:49
Like, I recently had a producer reach out to me on Instagram was like, Hey, I'd love to work with you. I think you're really talented. But I also think that you, you just like, look like you'd be really fun to work with. Like, that was the reason that they reached out to me, people are

Mike Meiers 21:02
looking, that's the thing, too. We think no one's paying attention. But people are watching us, they're watching us on the zooms. They're watching what we post on Instagram and Facebook and how we comment and how we interact. Because people are looking for that collaboration, whether it be in a business sense, whether it be in a songwriting sense, you know, if you've got a skill as a producer, and somebody's looking to up their business, and like, get top liners that they can recommend. And they see that not only you're good, but like you're nice. Oh, that's amazing. I'm gonna reach out like that producer, because you put out content that's, like, showcases you not just in the songwriting sense, but just like, Hey, your thoughts and it's like, Ah, I can get you know, that's awesome. I can connect with that. There's some there's, there's something there. That's more than just a super, like, I don't want to say superficial posts, but like a social media post, there's, there's more depth to it. And you can feel that. And then someone that's looking for that to add into their team. It's a win win is like, it's awesome.

Heather Taylor 22:09
Yeah, if you can see the other person, instead of just a generic person, you know, just like, oh, and replace that person saying this with this person. It wouldn't make a difference sometimes. But like, on some posts for from some people, like you're, you're like, oh, wow, I like if if somebody else was saying that, like I wouldn't believe them. But it sounds so authentic from you. Yeah.

Mike Meiers 22:33
That authenticity and that kindness is so it's real. Because people can smell bullshit. They can really tell when someone's bullshitting them. It doesn't you know, it doesn't. And it's just like, oh my lord, it's so fake. When you have people that I can tell, and I can think of multiple scenarios where I've witnessed where people I know, they've kind of like, probably talked, as they say, the kids say, talk smack behind my back. But when I'm there, they're just like, Oh, buddy, buddy, and I'm just like, Oh, my Lord, I know what if I know, please, Drop the act.

Hey, it's Mike. And I wanted to jump in the middle of this podcast to ask you a question. Have you ever submitted a song? And the feedback you got? Was it sounds dated? And you're slightly bummed because you put some time into the song. So you, so you read another one, you send it in they go, This also sounds dated. Instead of getting that kind of slight vague feedback. It sounds dated, if you realize like, Okay, I think it might be my melody and my lyrics. One, it'd be great if you could get some guidance on things that can pull it out of that slight Dark Ages, but into a modern era. Wouldn't it be great if you had some tools in your toolbox that if you wanted to make it more commercial, a little bit more mainstream, that you could have the tools and the capability to name what needs changed? Well, here's what I want you to do. I want you to go to songwriting for guitar.com. Right now, we have a free training that Laney is doing right now, on three steps you can take with your melody, right this very moment that is going to create variants that's going to pull it in a modern direction in ways that you can understand and you can start to implement right now. So what I want you to do, I want you to go to songwriting for guitar.com and I want you to watch that free training right now. She's gonna give you three tools. And they are three things that I think are super valuable when it comes to writing a quality decent top line. So I want you to go there right now and check it out. So song rang for guitar.com This trains up for a limited time, so don't sleep on it. Watch it now. I feel like you also when you see people, and they may not see what they're capable in the good things that they're capable of. But you go, like, You got to be a part of this team, because you're really good at this. And they really didn't know you because you're, you're now looking for it. You're constantly looking for people to grow and people to like, add on to your team, because you're like, oh, oh, my God, I don't think they realize I got to tell them how amazing they are at this thing. And they think it's just the most generic thing they're doing.

Heather Taylor 25:33
That's about it. So that starts from you, recognizing your strength, and understanding that and then being able to let it go, like letting that ego let it let whatever else you can't do go. You're like, Okay, that's a weakness. But that's like, fine. And then, because you've already tried like to do that thing. Now you're like, Oh, I, I know what qualities I don't have. And I see all that in that person. Let's do it. And then you have that nice piece and that trusting piece, and then you let it go. And you love that person. compliment you.

Mike Meiers 26:04
Yeah, it's just, it's so good. And so, but I think those are the three things, you got insecurity, you got ego, you're essentially you gotta be nicer. That really comes. It really, and maybe two and three are can be closely related. But I think you can have an ego and you can occasionally be nice, but you have to just quiet it over time. I think the ego doesn't go away. You just have to kind of control it. It's like, either it's driving or you just strap it in the back seat and you go ash Shut up. I'm in control. You're not in control. But I think of like this podcast, so it's like we have an intern also does this podcast. She's been awesome at PR. Like, it's just like, she's been so good. And like so Oreos, and like, is this good? And it's like, oh my lord, this is so detailed and well thought of that. I'm like your kick ass at whatever you do. Like you're but at the same time, I'm like, staring at him sounds How about you, John, just keep on staring at you. When you see someone do something really well. And you realize the growth it can add? Like Chris who edits this podcast. He knows so much about podcasts. I'm just like, because he's it's he's like the king of podcasts where he's just like, he knows how to and he can be like, Oh, he recommended that. And it's like, everybody has a strength. Maddie who Ebron she's she's so good at just cranking out all these singer songwriter songs for Song Finch. And she does three to seven a week. I'm just like, how it's amazing. She's got a process and system we bring in lady fucking awesome a top lining. She's so good at like all the nuances, especially with pop. Heather Evans is a networking queen. She is just like, allow me to show you the way of how to be than she could she swims in on a sea of niceness that over sweeps through that everybody's just like, Oh, Josh is the most, he goes in. And he's like, Hey, this is how you mix. But allow me to paint it this way. Instead of saying something overly complicated that makes me go like, I have no hug and glue what God said. He's like, it's kind of like this. And I'm like, Ah, that makes sense. And then suddenly, I've got the idea. Those are all people that have just like these amazing strengths, that by themselves, they're kicking ass, but to collectively add them in together with what we do and just make them accessible. That's it's like to me it's an obvious like, either this is going to be the mike ego show, and it's going to be just me doing every single, every single thing, every single workshop. Every single coaching client every single

Heather Taylor 28:39
I can't. Until coach and burn Yeah, I'm gonna crash and burn.

Mike Meiers 28:43
But also to it's just one perspective all the time. I don't know why I'm snapping my fingers just like yeah, yeah, yeah.

Heather Taylor 28:51
Because now it's just, you're just like getting things done. It's just legs. That's it. That's go.

Mike Meiers 28:56
I think today, too. I wanted to go through this because to me, I was feeling a little just like, it was Friday. And I was feeling a Friday slump a little bit. I was feeling just like, I don't know, because I'm looking at my board. And I'm like, Oh, I've got so many things. I you know, I have to like, these are the things coming up my you know, I have to rearrange the studio. Jim came, he put up panels, that was great. But it was a day of like, I was not in here. And I was like, Oh, it's a day loss. And I'm like, um, but like, going through this, I realized, even though it may feel for me, like nothing right now, is gaining traction, if any, feels like I'm like, strapped and just kind of Ooh, I've got so many amazing people working on this, Jim, Jim, who's backend and he's doing all this SEO stuff. He's taking care of that. So it's like, I'm like, Oh, my Lord Mike, shut the hell up. You are not because you're not doing this thing by yourself.

Heather Taylor 29:57
And you have a bunch of content out there already, too. And people can like all this work that you've already done. It's already it's, it's out there, you know. So it's also it's already working for you. And same with like with songwriters, you have songs that are already representing you. And you just, you know, have to recognize like you have done a lot. And so like sometimes when you're feeling tired, like you either have to Yeah, you just have to remember that. It's like, oh, wow,

Mike Meiers 30:22
I think it's that it was today, it was just like a. But then I realized, like, now if I had no one on my team, what would happen? I just be in my own head be like, you're right, my

Heather Taylor 30:33
eating chips in front of the TV.

Mike Meiers 30:38
And they would be everything bagel chips. I did get those from territorios this are so good. And the problem is I just hover over that bag. And it's just like, yeah. And it would be it would just be sad Mike just being like, oh, you know what, Mike? And of course I fault? Who do I follow on Instagram? I follow a lot of people that have businesses and like coaching and music and so I just be scrolling and being like, looks like everyone's doing amazing things except Mike.

Heather Taylor 31:04
But you never know. They could just be doing the same thing. They think their content that's working for them making somebody else feel man, they're

Mike Meiers 31:12
just sitting there on their couch to being like, Oh, me and Jim as well. But it's just like having this and just remind myself Wait a minute. Okay, shut up for a second. You there's things moving you've got to quiet the it's not all up to you. And you got to quiet that ego a little bit. And you got it. Yeah. Cool. Maybe today is not gonna be like, a go to the gym, come back and be energized. Be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, here we go. Let's go doo doo. But it's like, you can do a couple of things and be like, that's good. And knowing that you've got a team that's also planning and doing other things.

Heather Taylor 31:50
See, that's where I really love that because it's like, at first you're like, Oh, shut up ego. But really, what you're saying is like, your need to be self compassionate and aware of what's going really going on. Because you're like, hey, you're doing great, you know, and I feel like that self compassion will allow you to do a lot more and get out of that freeze mode of, I have so much to do. I'm just not gonna do anything. I'm gonna eat chips, but self compassion will be like, Oh, of course, you're tired. Of course this is going on. And then you'll be like, Oh, okay, of course. Okay, I'll just like sit for another couple minutes. And then eventually, like, things will take over. And motivation will take over again, as it always does.

Mike Meiers 32:32
So Gabrielle Bernstein, the universe has your back. I've been reading that. And last night, I read this chapter where she talked about judgment, and compassion. And that judgment, whether it for others or yourself, limits the amount of love and compassion that you allow the universe to flow. And I realize I'm very compassionate and supportive of others, but the person that I ended up being very critical ends up being myself where I do a lot of like, Yeah, this is good. It can be better. I can keep on you know, it's just like, I'm sound like Snap into a Slim Jim. Like, I'm making it sound like stepping into a Slim Jim, come on, you can do this, or it's the cool. Oh, yeah. It's like, I don't know.

Heather Taylor 33:23
Now you can label that voice. Every time you're being hard on yourself. You'd be like, Shut up slim, Jim.

Mike Meiers 33:27
It's like, I don't know. It's a combination of like Kool Aid slim, Jim. So it's Kool Aid flavored slim, Jim. Oh, come on. It's just awful. But it's, I think it's because I know, I want to do a lot. And it's really hard for me to separate the motivation, the desire from being like, cool, that was good. But you know what, you could be doing more, you know, you could be doing taught. And it's like, most of my days right now. I realize I'm in this period where I don't really have a dedicated day off. It's just pretty much like, there are different waves that I go through. And I realize over time, I need to start doing that. I need to have like a day like that. No, I need a day. But that means every day doesn't have to be 120,000,000% completely maxed out with everything that I need to start having cut offs, and also being like, hey, there are going to be times that you're going to be doing something and it's going to feel a little like, oh, man, this has taken me a bit. That's okay. Like if this was someone else on like, if it was you, and you're like, Mike, I need to take a break. I'm not gonna be like, fuck it. You gotta be kidding me. It's just like, This is insane. Everything. I'd be like, no, no, no, that totally makes sense. Listen, if you need to take today and just take a timeout you can.

Heather Taylor 34:50
That's okay. You're very encouraging about that for other people.

Mike Meiers 34:53
I'm not for myself. I'm like, Oh, you got to keep on going. I think it's it's it's there are periods. I was good with that. And I've really realized recently, and I think, I think I think he thinks it's because things. As things grow, I realized like this is a new level. And part of me feels a little intimidated by that. Because I know how things are at one particular level, because I've gotten used to it, and I knew how to manage it. But as things grow, I realized these are new obstacles. These are new challenges. These are new things that are a little intimidating, a little scary. And part of me, that's the self doubt that creeps in like, the minute you just strap this down, and you go and you wash your show, or you just take a moment to just like, take a nap or do something that's like another hobby, that's just not writing. But just like you go and you play that game you like doing that you never do at all. But when you do, it's because you need a brain reset. You need to be okay with that. And right now, I guess that's why I'm talking this out where I was like, we got to talk about this, because it's me also this episodes for me to just remind myself of this. Yeah,

Heather Taylor 36:07
exactly. And that's why it's so important for even for songwriters to get their team to, because what you just shared that was really vulnerable. And that that's very so relatable. Yeah. So I'm glad you just said that. Thanks for sharing that.

Mike Meiers 36:22
I think it's because you're welcome. I feel better sharing that I feel kind of like it's slightly therapeutic. I feel like he has because like things are growing, and I'm really scared you things can be good and growing. And it can also be very scary and intimidating. Absolutely. Because now I knew a level of how to deal with things at a certain level. And that's why sometimes we don't want to collaborate or advance or CRO because we know, yeah, it they're going to be good things. But there's a whole new host of obstacles, there's a whole new host of things that you're gonna have to think through, there's a whole host of new, you know, conversations you're gonna have to have, there are going to be things that are going to really stretch your limits that feel so fucking intimidating, that it's easier to just be like to be hard on yourself and critical instead of being like, I am scared. Because why it's hard to say that as an adult to be like, very scared of this. And it's like, then, because you're afraid that people are going to be like, What do you mean scare? You just got it, it's a bit you're fine. You know, it's like, things are going pretty good for you look at people over there and say, Yeah, you're right, I shouldn't be that I should be harder on myself. So it's like, that's where you can get down that rabbit hole.

Heather Taylor 37:42
Do you know that in extreme sports, the professionals when they're doing something that is like, like, ski jumpers, or Yeah. What they say is the best ones, they admit to doing those things scared. They admit that they're scared, but they just get used to doing it scared. And I think that is incredibly powerful to be like, Oh, I just have to own it. Like I have to do it. Do it scared?

Mike Meiers 38:13
And how often are we reading books where people are like, Oh, you it has to feel that means you're doing something, you're stepping into a realm that you need to be in that it's this, this is where you need to be. And I think I've gotten used to this sort of like slightly level of where I was like, yeah, that's like I know how to manage this is great. And now it's just like, Oh, my, oh, my next level this a little bit more. And it's the same thing in songwriting. It's the same thing in the business. Yeah, it's just like, Oh, it's just like, oh, oh, and it's a little intense. But that's okay. It's that's where I know like, cool. It needs to be it's not all going to be just like this sort of like, ah, was it you know, I guess like you said, extreme, extreme sports. I think of like extreme skiers. It can't all be like, when they're just doing on that flatland the slight like little like,

Heather Taylor 39:03
not country ski. I just like you need different. Yeah,

Mike Meiers 39:06
hello. Hello. Just like, it's like, you know, I I feel like I was in that zone of like mall Walker. For a while just like sharing how we're walking around. Like in my little jumpsuit be like out this morning. Morning. This feels comfortable, just enough. And now it's like, cool. It's time for the other thing. So

Heather Taylor 39:26
if you want more, if you want more from from life, you have to require more from yourself. You can like don't be surprised when it gets harder if you want more of something, you know exactly.

Mike Meiers 39:37
And it's as I think after reading that last night, I was like, Oh, I was like judgment. She was like stop and think of who you're the most judgmental. I'm like, huh, I was like I was looking around. Of course, like Jen's reading Lila's there. I look at Leila, and I'm like, I'm not judging her. Jen. No. I'm like other people. No, no. And I was like, Oh, me and then the next line. She was like, What am I Got yourself. And I was like, Oh, I didn't even think of that. I was like, oh, oh, oh, oh wait, that was such a weighty moment. And it was like, oh, and she was like, Are you meeting yourself with love? And I was like no know. And it was like, Cool if then you've got to open yourself up to that. And so maybe that's the solution to in those three things that we talked about those three, regardless if you feel insecure, regardless if you got the ego regardless, if you've got like that sort of like slightly jaded, rough edge in terms of personality. It's kind of meeting yourself in that, that position of love, but also meeting others and that it is very vulnerable, but it's where it's the most groundbreaking it's the most. That's where you see so many good things and to rob yourself and to rob others of that, man, that sucks because then you don't really build that much.

And that does it for this week's episode. It was edited and produced by Chris Mathias. I'm Mike Myers. Thanks for listening.