Episode 87: Music Reps in Sync Licensing

Jul 19, 2023

Episode 87: Music Reps in Sync Licensing

Ever wondered what it's like to have someone pitch your music for major opportunities? Tune into my discussion with Natalie Phan, the Founder and CEO of SoundSync Music Agency, specializing in representing Texas Pop artists.

I’d like you to get curious about the effort and dedication that goes into pitching on someone's behalf. When someone like Natalie believes in your music, they go above and beyond to represent you as an artist. We want to shed light on the  invaluable role of music representatives and the immense work and logistics involved in pitching.

Natalie serves as the bridge between two different worlds: the artists and the music supervisors. Discover what she listens for when accepting music and learn about her expert process when pitching to supervisors.

Gain a newfound appreciation for the behind-the-scenes efforts before you start sending out those emails so you know the right ways to approach and connect with music reps, as well as the common mistakes to avoid. 

The knowledge she shares will elevate your understanding of music representation and empower you to navigate the sync licensing world.


Listen here or read the transcribed podcast below...


Mike Meiers 0:00

Hey, I'm Mike Meiers and this is the Songwriting for Guitar Podcast which is geared to support songwriters and producers to gain confidence and turn pro. I bring on industry experts to help you improve and monetize your skills, Engage better in the writing process, and build healthy habits to create a sustainable career that you love. Caffeinated, inspirational, conversational.

What's up friends Mike Meiers here with the songwriting for guitar podcast episode number 87 Natalie Phan. Now I had the privilege of meeting Natalie. Back in June I spoke in when I was in Austin, Texas, at the Austin Music Foundation, about entryway into sync licensing. And she owns this rad company called Sound sync music. So she pitches one stop Texas pop. So her main focus is Texas based artists. I wanted her on because I want you to see the work and the time that goes into pitching on someone's behalf when someone believes in your thing so much. I want you to gain a newfound appreciation before you start sending out emails to people to wrap you to understand the amount of work the logistics behind it, and the right ways to approach them the right ways to connect with them. And more importantly, what are the wrong ways Natalie has a ton of thought into this. I'm so glad we could dive into this episode. So we're gonna get into it. Episode number 87. With Natalie fan

Natalie, yeah, thank you for being here on the show. Because I feel your day to day operation. You know, with the company, you've built what you do, I don't think people realize the amount of work that it takes that you do on a daily basis, because they think like, Oh, you're so cool. You get to put music shows, and you just like, you know, life is a highway. Yes, there we go. I'm putting it on putting into a show. It's perfect. My day is done ink sign. But I feel like there's there's so much more than me just singing Rascal Flatts. I feel like there's, there's so much to your job. And what you do that I don't think people take the time to understand the the day to day operation of what you do.

Speaker 2 2:33
Yeah. So I essentially am the middleman for other middle people. And that's what I like to tell people. And I don't make the decisions, the people that I'm sending the music to, yeah, might make a decision, but probably not, they probably have to bring it up to the producers of the show, or whoever's creating the advertisement, like there's a whole chain of command, and I'm near the bottom of it. And I'm happily there because I represent some really wonderful artists who without an agent would have significantly less of a chance of getting placements. In film, television and advertising.

Mike Meiers 3:11
I think that's a big thing to the fact that you're an agent on behalf of those. It's like you're repping it's like out of the contacts you've made and the people that you know, you're going like I vouch for this person. That's to me a huge thing for someone trying to get into sync to have someone on your like cheering you on and like, I'm gonna pitch your stuff because I believe in it. That's really big.

Speaker 2 3:34
Yeah. And it all starts with that, that level of connection between you and the artists. Yeah. But then it goes beyond that as well. Because if it were up to me, I would pitch all of the music that I love and cherish. But I know that in my heart of hearts, some songs just have more of an advantage than others in terms of how broadly they can be pitched and for what projects they can be pitched for. And it also, you know, how much the artist wants to influence their own chances of getting placements. It all factors. And so I mean, if if you're willing to work with me, I'm willing to work with you. It's that sort of relationship that is being forged,

Mike Meiers 4:20
which is so good. But yeah, even just in the pitching, there's so much that goes into pitching, and also to organization and then we're talking paperwork, there's a host of things that I think people forget you have to do and that you're doing on their behalf for others.

Speaker 2 4:38
Yeah, the paperwork is endless. So I'll walk you through kind of like my process of everything. Yeah, it depends on what you know what I'm doing every day, but because I run my own agency, it's only me and then maybe a couple of other people working part time to help me out either interns or a pro taxes are, you know, people like that. But for the most part, I'm the one doing the finances, I'm the one signing all the paperwork, I'm the one sending out the paperwork to the artists. I'm the one scouting for new artists doing all the metadata, you know, you name it. So for me, the process, in starting the business was coming up with different processes that I can kind of tweak over time to make it as easy and simple as possible to do all of those things all at once. Because otherwise, I would need to hire experts in every realm of the kingdom to come and help me build an agency. And if you think about, like, if an artist wanted to represent themselves, how much work that would go into doing all of that, you know, doing their accounting for them, making sure that all of the metadata is correct and in, in a way that is agreeable to the sync world, making sure that the songs are being heard, you know, getting to know all the people that you're pitching to, it's, it's a lot. So for me, first step was always just to make everything as easy as possible. So I've done that with various tools like disco for all of the metadata. I, I'm a huge fan of disco. I also love airtable Air table, and Google Forms helps me collect information without having to like do it manually, you know, by calling someone or emailing someone for information. Everything's done through those systems, all of my agreements with my artists have schedule A's, which list out all the songs that they want me to represent for them. And they can update the schedules whenever they want, without me having to like, go and ask them to do it. So all of the technology that we have nowadays, I'm like, very, very grateful for all of that. It's certainly made my life a lot easier.

Mike Meiers 6:54
The reason I feel this is important to know, because inevitably, you get people that just throw songs at you. Oh, that my song is great. Is it? Is it great? Or did you just happen to find my email? Yes, spam to me, and you just, you're just like, go, go get me a placement.

Speaker 2 7:15
Yeah, I get a lot of submissions. And it's from people that I know, people that I don't know, people who don't live in the state, and haven't read that, you know, haven't done the basic research of just going on the website and seeing that I only represent Texas based artists, you know, so I get a lot of those. And then I also get random disco playlists being sent to my disco inbox somehow. And then I'll get people saying that they heard me on some, or through the grapevine through some podcasts or whatever, that I have no idea what that even I apologize for

Mike Meiers 7:52
all the you know, the before, you're about to spam her. Because you're like, I heard you on the podcast, I'm typing the email now. So the big thing I think he says, like, look at the website before you send anything. Just read because I've and I've looked at your website, it's very clear, you really can't just be like, delude and be like, if you're from New England be like, I'm gonna send your My Texas based artists. So the first question is, Are you an artist? And are you from Texas? Because if you are cool, that's the first. That's like the first gate. But if you're not, then you can stop. Because you're not going you've made it clear. Have there been people that have tried to be like, but still represent me anyway? Yeah, I

Speaker 2 8:41
mean, people from all over all over the world, really. And honestly, some of the stuff that I hear is really cool, because sometimes I'll go and listen to it anyway. Yeah. But first of all, I only rep Texas artists. Second of all, if you can't read the instructions, or do basic research on the website, I know that you're going to be kind of hard to work with, and I just can't invite that sort of energy into my world.

Mike Meiers 9:03
That's actually a good point. Because like if you if you didn't read, we've already got a significant problem. Because there are going to be things that you know, I'm going to ask you, if you didn't read this, and I go, everything's cleared and ready. If you say yes, I'm concerned that maybe might not be

Speaker 2 9:22
right. And I do occasionally send briefs out to my artists, specially if they're like super urgent. So a lot of them are just in case I don't have some of the songs like if they're holding out on a couple of demos that they have made and are like finishing up in their studio or whatever. Like I like to send it out so that they know what's coming onto the plate. And they can kind of help me out if there's something that they can do to prioritize certain songs while they're working on them. So there was a lot of reading involved. There's also a lot of paperwork paperwork, step one and step five and step 10. So I really need you to be able to read things and understand them,

Mike Meiers 10:10
because especially what you said to the reading of brief and it is kind of like that deciphering of, you know, what's important. What do you need to do? What's something that you notice when people send you music that is a slight, like, I love your voice, but the song that you've sent me, it just doesn't, there's a lot of red flags that just don't work for me, there's potential there. If you wrote some that were a little bit more appealing or moved in the direction that makes it easier to get place. Because people are like, oh, there's no science between, you know, what can get you placed and whatnot. And it's like, actually, there's a couple things that can work in your favor. What are some big ones that stick out to you, when you're listening to music,

Speaker 2 10:50
when I'm listening, I need the beat to be dynamic. So it can't just be the same beat over and over again, unless and there are very few exceptions to that rule, like certain hip hop songs, it's fine. That's pretty much the only reason that I can think of right now. But only certain hip hop songs, not all hip hop songs just like certain ones. So I really need that beat to stand on its own. If I took the vocals away and made an instrumental would I still be captivated with the instrumental. And then I think about the vocals. And this is my biggest issue is when music sent in the vocals, and the song could be great. Like the instrumental can be great. But when the vocals come on top, are they tuned? To do have someone with experience tuning vocals? Tune your vocals? Did you try to do it yourself? You know? And can I tell that you tried to do it yourself? Because there are very few people who can mix vocals well, and I need a baseline, I need it to sound professional. Before I even like think about the song before I think about the instrumental like are the vocals tuned.

Mike Meiers 12:02
I think that's so important to hear. Because there's so many people right now that are early in on the stage of like creating music. And they're like, I'm doing everything myself. And I'm like, no, because you said there's a standard before you even consider the other things. It seems that always at the end people are like I, you know, I got I bought auto tune and I'm figuring it, you don't want to hear a song that's figuring out as you go. You want to hear something that has a standard of just how you have a standard of like taking in music, they've got to have a standard of you're about to send this. Is it really professional? Or is it just can you tell the doubles a little off? Like, you know, it's a double vocal, but it's just like, something's weird.

Speaker 2 12:56
I work in all media, right? So my priorities are going to be at the very basic level, like, Does it sound good? Is it? Is it commercial enough? But does it have artistic value. So I'm, you know, on the scale of artistic value and commercialism, I kind of leaned heavily on the artistic value. Whereas some of my colleagues in the industry who focus on other areas of sync, like advertising, are going to lean a little bit more heavily towards the commercialism realm. And it depends on where you're sending your music, what your own goals are. A lot of the musicians that I've worked with, since they're independent, obviously, are going to value their artistic integrity more than how commercial is your music? How simple is it? But there are some people who are just like, no, like, I give me the dough, like, I want to, I want to get good at this. Yeah, the sink stuff. And it's not like, if you're commercial, you can't also be artistic, like I reject that I was well, I think you can be both. But I also think that you can just be an artist that just wants to do their own thing. Like, who cares about any of that, like think stuff it? If it happens, great if it doesn't like whatever? Yeah, so I have artists that are various levels of this scale. And I also work with a lot of people that are on various levels of the scale as well, especially the folks in advertising, they're going to care more about how it's gonna sound and an ad, believe it or not, yeah, and my whole role is to be the translator, you know, so if I know that someone's unwilling to change something about the song because they want to maintain the artistic value of it, then, you know, it's probably going to be off limits to change anything about it and I'll just not pitch it or I'll tell them that or I'll tell the music soup that you know this it's it's not going to happen with the song but here's some other ones. that you might be able to work with, you know, it's just about translating to different worlds, and everyone has their own goal, everyone has a goal. And I'm just trying to keep everyone happy, which is ever

Mike Meiers 15:15
rarely ever. It's never.

Unknown Speaker 15:18
But it's an impossible task. But

Mike Meiers 15:20
that's, I agree with you, you can still have something that's commercially good, but still has the artists five, and it's the nuances and the personality, because that's what's going on. It's like, they go hand in hand. Like you want something as quality that's tuned well, but like, I want to hear your personality, I want to hear your your, you know, we say like vibe and feel, and your take on it, because you're your thumbprint. You know, I guess your your musical thumbprint is going to be like your unique thing. And that's always going to be the thing that works to your advantage. But it's like keeping in mind, yeah, have your musical thumbprint. But make sure your vocals are in line, you know. And so that means bringing in somebody that knows, like, hey, they're, they have a great track record of tuning, but they're not going to, you know, they're not throwing on the T PAIN vocal to tune your butt, like, they're gonna use Melodyne. And they're gonna work to make sure and they're gonna use vocal line to make things sure if you've got stacks that they're, they're tight and not all over the place.

Speaker 2 16:22
And you're going to need someone to translate certain terms that music supervisors are, are going to say in their brief, but the musicians speak a different language like I know some jazz musicians, they're closer to scientists than they are artists, honestly, some of them are just like, so deep into jazz theory or music theory in general, that that's the language that they speak. Some music supervisors don't have that background. So what they're going to say is, I want something that sounds like Frank Sinatra, but also kind of has the feel of like Duke Ellington. And the jazz musician is going to go, what the heck are you talking about? Like, I have no idea. And my job is just to say they want straight ahead, jazz, that's what they want. So you can it's interesting, like, you hear a lot of different languages that are all technically in the same language, but they don't, they don't speak to each other in the same way.

Mike Meiers 17:16
And it's, you know, as you said, like, it's getting clear on what you want. You know, Are you an artist who is like, you know, if it happens, that's cool, but I'm not I'm not, you know, worried about, like, you know, the checks rolling in, I want it you know, I'm gonna gig I'm gonna go tour if I get one, that's fine. I'm not even really worried about it. And then you have others. They're like, Oh, no, no, no, I'm 100%. In and it's like, cool. If you're gonna be 100% in, yes, you got to make sure what area? Are you going to be 100%? In? Are you trying ads? Are you trying? And how are you going to maintain your authenticity without sounding so stinky? To the extreme, and then to the other extreme, so So out of the box that it's like, they're asking for a box, and you need to get in the box, just the little bit, you got to be near it, you're not even close to it, that you have to kind of bridge those that that's where sometimes people just lean a little too sinky. And what I mean by sinking is a little too, like, oh, this does this isn't a song. You didn't, I asked her song and you kind of gave me just like, they always say like, you know, I had somebody say once, how do you write jingles? I was like, No, it's It's not jingles. That's not what I do.

Speaker 2 18:33
I know a couple of music supervisors who can tell right off the bat I actually I think most of them can when they think that it's library music as opposed to something that's authentically made to be released to the world as to provide artistic value.

Mike Meiers 18:49
Now, I'd be interested if somebody's listening this what would be your definition of library music versus like an artist, like an artist song,

Speaker 2 18:58
I've tried to stay far far away from calling my company a library, because I think that it brings with it a certain connotation. But I think that there is a distinction that that needs to be made. So I consider what I do an agency. So the agency has representatives, a representative will represent the songs that an artist makes a library does something very similar, but in mass, you know, they're gonna collect 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of songs, they're going to put it in a library and they're going to make it available for people to license for often a smaller fee. It's going to be a lot more budget friendly. It's going to be massive, like walking into a room with like a million books. And without a librarian to help you. You know, that's how I kind of feel what a library is. Whereas I focus on a white glove experience for both the artist And the music supervisors,

Mike Meiers 20:02
I love that you said experience for both because I'm like, now that you've painted, it's right. You, it's like you're kind of setting the mood for both of them that makes it more appealing where you're right, a library is 1000s upon 1000s upon 1000s, there's no gatekeeper. It's just like, Hey, come on in, and we got lots of it, just like, that's good. It's, and some allow anybody to upload. So it's like, anybody can at any skill set, which is awful, because then it's weeding through all the ones that are just not good. Like, I'm not gonna mention ones, but there was, you know, I had one person wants to go, I, you know, I got my music and a librarian was like, what is the librarian, they said, and I'm like, anybody, you know, I could, you know, record in my phone, watermelon watermelon, whoa, and just like upload and put it under acoustic and, and meanwhile, somebody's gonna have to be like, Oh, that's not good, and weed through it. But there is a huge distinction. It's an interesting you say to there is a huge money distinction between the two, you are not going to land, you know, $1,000 placements, $5,000 placements in E library, far from it. Someone on your behalf that is really thinking about the experience of both the supervisor, and the artist is creating that environment for larger placements to happen.

Speaker 2 21:28
Yeah. And I think that most supervisors, at least, I mean, some music supervisors might want to use libraries for various reasons, like, especially if they're working with like a low budget, film or any sort of project. But I think that most of them are pretty aware that you're going to want to go with someone who specializes in a certain thing. Yeah. So for me, that thing would be Texas Music. For other people, it might be like, I only do grunge music. And some people might only do jazz or you know, it doesn't even have to be genre specific. You can do like I do all female acapella groups, or whatever, right? Like that exists, but probably maybe somewhere somewhere

Mike Meiers 22:11
it has to exist. It's it's found to be one.

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With all of this, like everything useless, there's so much work. There's so many things involved. The question I got is like what got you into this?

Speaker 2 23:22
Sometimes I forget, because this whole music industry thing is just been like a blackout experience for me. Like I woke up one day and I'm like, Oh, wow, cool. Like I am a sync rep now. But I started pretty young in music. Before even college I was writing about different concerts that I was going to I was like, a journalist in high school for like my school's newspaper, I was editor in chief and they would send us tickets, and we would go and we'd like send them reviews and stuff. And that's what I wanted to do was journalism. And when I got to college, I decided to be a Digital Media Management major at St. Edwards University, which seemed a lot more practical at the time, and I accidentally started a radio station.

Mike Meiers 24:12
As you do you stumble into it, as you

Speaker 2 24:15
do, and one of my mentors and starting the station was an entertainment attorney who just taught me all of the things all of the things about FCC law, DMCA Copyright Act, you know, got me started in that realm of things got me thinking about licensing, you know, because before you know, what does your high school brain even know it's like, oh, yeah, you just get some songs. You put it in a radio station. There you go. But it got me thinking about that kind of thing. And I started the business when I was a junior in college, and I started learning more about retail licensing. So I interned at this place called mood media, which is the largest retail me Music provider in the United States and probably the world, and started making mixes for them, did a little bit of licensing work for them, got my hands dirty with it, you know, started my own company that did a similar thing. And then started thinking about stink. And I flew out to LA, without knowing a single person, maybe just a couple of friends, and got connected with just the right person who introduced me to maybe like, four or five music supervisors in a single day. And it kind of just snowballed into a whole business. And just accidental relationships became very, you know, it was just very, very, it was a happy accident. So I ended up making friends. And I ended up using what I knew about music licensing to build a business around sync licensing. But also I want to, I want to note that the intention at all times was to create a community in Austin, specifically where I was living at the time. Yeah, I wanted to create a community that was self sustaining, because in 2015, as my music career was ramping up, there was a lot of talk about there being a crisis in music. And I wanted to test that theory to see if we, as a community in Austin was doing everything that we could to help sustain our own musicians. And a big missing piece of that was synced. So I wanted to learn more about that, and also see if I can make a difference.

Mike Meiers 26:37
That's huge. So there's, there's a lot of things that I want to kind of like dive in. I like how you said, kind of like, it was a happy accident, but like you intentionally went to LA, Nobody forced you on the plane, you went there with intention of like, I'm going to do it. There are so many people that they feel intention, but they never do. Like they there's resistance or the little Gremlins kind of get in. I'm just like, you can't do it. You're like, you're right. Gremlins in my head, I can't do it. I won't get on the plane, I'll stay. But you went, as you said, knowing very few and just like a few friends, and meeting a couple, but like few music supervisors that you met, but that that relationship aspect is huge. And I think people keep on forgetting, again, it's a relationship business, it's about connecting, it's not about what can you do for me do something shaked out but like connecting where they are learning, being a good human. But your intentions to have, what you wanted to do, is also, yes, this is a business that you're doing. Because it also provides plenty for you to you know, pay for bills and things of that nature. But the idea when you're lifting others up and showing them there is opportunity with the thing that you want to do that it isn't this barren wasteland of like, there's no opportunities for music, there's huge opportunities for music. And I think, too, especially in the past couple of years, it's like how many streaming services, how many different shows are in production, and then how many different shows not just here in the United States, but overseas, it's just like, there's a, there's a vast amount of opportunity, when you look for it.

Speaker 2 28:23
That's right. And having an agent look for you is going to be easier than looking yourself.

Mike Meiers 28:29
It is because they've given the thought they've given, you know, the, you know, they've made and they built all those relationships, when they that artist builds a relationship with you. And you're like, cool, this is a good fit, they suddenly get the access to all these other relationships that would take years, if not a decade or more to build that are instantly at their fingertips.

Speaker 2 28:58
I had two choices right now I could permanently move to LA that would have made my ramp up into the sink world a lot easier, a lot quicker. I would have met more music supervisors, you know, just from living there, probably. Yeah. And the downside is I didn't get to live out the intention of bringing that business back to Texas, and bringing it to the artists of Texas and also I love Texas and I want to prove that we're not you know, some, there are certain stereotypes that I'd love to break about Texans.

Mike Meiers 29:37
I can say from experiencing Austin for the first time. I fucking loved it. It was so good. It was Yes, everyone was so friendly. It was so creative. And there were tons of great vegan places to that I was just like, this is such a good city. It was just an amazing vibe. I was only there for a couple of days but I was like, I want to go back To ask them because it's really nice.

Speaker 2 30:03
It is it is. I mean, everyone, they're just like, really, really, they're good people. So I had already built a reputation in Austin, I'd already lived there for several years, I knew a lot of musicians, and it was easy to build my roster that way by staying in town, staying true to the intention of bringing business from mostly Los Angeles to Austin. And you know, those were the two choices I had stay in Austin, and build up my my roster quickly, but build my relationships with music supervisors a little bit more slowly, or moved to LA fully and represent artists from Texas in LA, which would have been a little bit more complicated, I would have struggled to build up that catalog. Yeah. All in all, it took me several years to get the business really up and going, like full time, but I finally did it. And I attribute that to having like a really, really strong catalogue that no one else had even looked at, you know, no one was thinking about Austin or Texas as a market. So I wanted to go out there and show people how great Texan musicians could be.

Mike Meiers 31:15
What's great about that, too, is when there's a cause or reason or thing that you want to do, and you feel very strongly about it. I feel that really empowers but also helps power. You in those moments of like that build, as you were saying it didn't happen quickly, it was like that slow build, but I feel people that have a very strong cause, but also a long term mindset of what they're doing. They're way more patient. And they build really great things. As opposed to someone that wants wants it now and really wants to see things happen. It's tough. But the ones that are very long term mindset, like focus. They're like, Nah, it's a long game. I'm cool with it. I'm okay with it. That to me is like a big takeaway, because I feel like anything in music is a long term process. If you're someone that wants to see like, it'll happen so quickly. No, it's not going to happen quickly.

Speaker 2 32:16
Yeah, I mean, the way I think about it, is, if you were an artist that signed up with any sink, rep, any any one that knew that what they were doing, you know, if you had representation in that way, think about it in terms of how quickly you're going to see your return, which isn't going to be that quickly. But how much money you'd be making year to year, say you're with a rep and they didn't get you anything for like two years, that happens. Okay, that happens. You got to keep sending the music, and then say by year three, they get you something and it's $10,000. Well, how much money would would you have made if you hadn't stuck around? You know, on average, three, three years making 10 grand, that's over three grand a year. Right?

Mike Meiers 33:09
So what you're describing right there to that I think is important is? Are you still sending them new material? Are you not expecting them to just keep on pitching? The the three or four songs or five songs and be like a? No, it's just are you constantly giving them? It doesn't have to be like, Hey, here's 20 songs this week. But like, Could you at least get one or two going, if not one a month or every other month, just so that you're thrown that pool and you know, because it will, the more that's out there, and if the quality is the same, and you're still following the rules that are making it sinkable, but still staying true to you, your odds are going to increase as opposed to expecting you to try to make something happen from those three or four songs.

Speaker 2 34:01
Yeah, exactly. It's always easier to have like a large pool of music you can use Yeah, if I only have two or three songs from you, which I don't even do anymore. Like with new artists, you have to have like a minimum of five. And that's already like pretty low. So if I only have a few songs from you, that's and they're not hitting in the first year. You know, your your chances with those songs. It's not as high, you know what I'm saying? So, like, keep sending me new music. And keep doing what you do best, which is writing songs and recording songs, or one or the other. whichever one it may be, or both. If you're really like that lucky of a person to have this all of the skills, you know, like keep doing what you do best. Keep collaborating with people that you'd like to collaborate with. Keep trying to find producers that make you sound good. And I will work work my tail off to try to get you placements. You know, it might not happen for a while, but you have to keep in constant communication with your rep.

Mike Meiers 35:10
I love that you said to work with producers. So if you're that artist and like, you're like, I can only write songs, start connecting and networking with other producers. And, you know, cool, don't pay everyone, but let's see if you can do split deals with them. Because you know, I'm like, if I know that there's an artist that's like, Hey, I have this, you know, this deal. This deal. I'm looking for someone new, so cool. They've already made a connection. And that person that's pitching their song has already made connections themselves, me working with this artist and just doing a split deal. I suddenly have access to the potential of all the the possibilities are endless. So let's, let's write lots and lots of songs and through representation, the odds are going to work in our favor. That is so appealing. And I think people forget that. They're just kind of like, I'm not sure if I know if I explain the vision of what's going to happen to the song too. That makes it a lot easier for me to jump on board.

Speaker 2 36:11
Also, I want to go back to the library thing. It's not a bad thing to put your music in a library. You can be a library artists, and you can have a full career as like an actual artists that tours and performs with a side project somewhere else that sounds completely different that you just want to put in libraries. Like if that's your thing, go do it. Like some music should be in libraries. And some music should be repped by an agency, but it's up to you to determine which the best path is what your goals are.

Mike Meiers 36:41
I guess when I think of library, I do like Production Music and that's a little bit. That's like a different realm sometimes because it's just like, if I'm working with an artist, we're you know, we're writing full. If I'm doing Production Music, there's no lyrics. It's me just kind of sitting here making a song that's like, less than a minute. And it's a couple different versions, minimal instrumentation most of the time because it's this it's a different rule set. And I heard it described one Steve from 52 queues told me is like, it's kind of like wallpaper at the La Quinta Inn in Knoxville, Tennessee. It's important, it's important. But if you asked me, what was the wallpaper at that hotel in Knoxville? Oh, no, I forgot. But it was there. It was part it was it was part of their

Speaker 2 37:28
people will not remember unless it's really good. Yeah, we're really bad. And library music's usually somewhere in between. You know, I'm saying that is

Mike Meiers 37:37
that is. That's actually good. You're right. It's like that pendulum swing. It's like that. But usually it is it's just kind of like, because it's back. It's just there. Because there are other more important things going on. And it's like, it works. So yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. There's lots of things I do yet. There's full songs that I love doing with artists that are wrapped by different people, because they've got their people in place that are doing it, which I think is awesome. So if someone is listening to this, and they're like, Okay, I'm from Texas. Cool. I'm an artist, I think I've got quality music, what is the best way to just double, triple quadruple check before they're like, I'm gonna research you and send you an email right now and I'm sending you songs, what is the best thing for them to do to just kind of make sure for they fill your inbox with a message of like, Hey, what's up.

Speaker 2 38:32
So on my website, sound sick music.com. There's a submit button, you click on the submit button, it takes you to my dispo portal. And it also gives you very, very clear instructions on what to put in your submission. Okay, that's, that's all

Mike Meiers 38:51
I love that. And I like how you even talked about you have a system? You have a system for the answer that or the question I just asked you were like, just go to my site, click this link. And that's going to walk you through and and I love that because it's like, there you go. And so if you're like, I hit all of that. Amazing, I'm gonna go ahead and I'm gonna go send, I'm gonna go send an email. And if the answer is in a negative, I don't have that. Don't email still and be like, Hi. I know I didn't you know, I don't mean because that immediately is like I would you know, if I were you, which I'm not I would be like, that email is going to go in my never contact and I'm just going to because that person doesn't read so immediately first impressions matter. I'd love for it to be Hey, I've got all my shit in line and I read everything that you have listed.

Speaker 2 39:47
I seriously sometimes get submissions that are like Hello, Sir or Madam. Those really killed. Oh,

Mike Meiers 39:54
it's just that's even worse. I got once somebody You know, when you can create an email and if you do a particular brackets like first name, or it was basically that it was just like, first name, comma, I really love what you're doing. It's just like, what are we discovering? It's such a relational business. And if the first interaction with you is something that's generic that you use for everyone, I don't think this is going to work, because it's just like, it's like a cold, clammy hands that has no grip, and they're just kind of like sliding across. And, oh, it's the worst type of internet handshake?

Speaker 2 40:37
Yeah, that's right. Do your research definitely is a relationship based business. And if you work with me, if you're one of my artists, you can rest assured that I'm not going to randomly do that. Follow the music supervisors. Like, send them a generic email. Don't do that to me, you know,

Mike Meiers 41:00
this was so good, because I feel this is really important that people need, they have a desire, I know they want to get their songs in to TV, because they're like, there's so many possibilities and ever in, you know, I hear that, you know, I get spammed a million, you know, Instagram, you know, ads and people be like sync licensing sick, like you want to get into it. Yeah, just click the button below, click the button below. But it's like, let's actually hear the actual process, the things to do the things not to do. And before you start sending the start going, but actually listening to what's needed someone's process and then assess, taking that info, and then move into that next step. So I think this was awesome. I really appreciate you being here. And just, this was fun.

Unknown Speaker 41:47
Yeah. Thanks for having me, Mike. It was fun.

Mike Meiers 41:55
And that does it for this week's episode. It was edited and produced by Chris values. I'm Mike Myers. Thanks for listening.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai