Podcast Episode 97: Live Gigs to Full Time Production

Hey, friends, Mike Meiers here with the Songwriting for Guitar Podcast, episode number 97. - Live gigs to full time production. Did you know that you might be missing out on amazing songs, amazing melodies that are currently in your brain, right at this very moment, as I'm saying this sentence that are going unused, they're locked. They're in a secret compartment, a secret door in your mind. And I'll tell you what's going to unlock it. It's your guitar. But the problem is, you're not using your guitar to its fullest potential. And that's why I wrote the song writing guitarist transformation and just 15 minutes a day. This book walks you through a methodology methodology that I've developed in almost a decade, a decade of teaching teaching songwriters, guiding them through a process a process that I use myself, that I've written hundreds upon hundreds of songs that have gone into production that have landed into television shows that artists have released, I'm giving you that formula. Right now. All you got to do is go to songwriting guitarist book.com To get your copy. And guess what I want to give you a free copy a free freaking copy of this book, all you got to do is just pay the shipping and handling. That's right, I have your copy right here, I just need to know where to send it. So go to songwriting guitarist book.com To get your free copy claimant right now and get those songs that are in your head out of there and get them into the world. Now in this episode, I'm talking with Steph trypsin. And I've never met Steph, that stuff. We've we followed each other mutually on Instagram. But what I love about having a podcast like this, throughout the discussion and the conversation you're gonna see like, we feel like we've known each other for quite a while because it was a super natural conversation. But I really wanted to dive into her transformation from live gigging to full time production and crushing in sync. I mean, when I'm talking about crushing it in sync, you know, she's had McDonald's commercials Carebear Carebear, though I was so excited to talk about that. She's had songs on Amazon Prime, the Grammy Awards, the Golden Globes, ESPN, BBC, I could keep on going on and on the amount of work that she has done for TV and film. But what I love is her commitment to the process and allowing it to evolve, knowing when to change, we talked about some of the characteristics that she feels that kind of kept her on this path that didn't allow her to just drop off and give up. But make those changes those things I talked about again, and again, pivoting, we're gonna get into that. So believe me, if you are someone who wants to do this full time, then you want to hear a story of someone that was in your shoes that made that change over time, that will give you some really killer advice. And also to you'll just have an amazing conversation this episode you've got to listen to so I'm gonna dive into it right now. Episode number 97 live gigs to full time production

staff, I feel like we've been in the same spaces, the same online spaces where it's like a kind of new you but like, I've never met you or had a conversation. And so this is the first one.

Steph Trivison 3:54
Yeah, I'm stoked. It's, that's the weird thing about the internet is like you can kind of tangentially know, other people in the same space where, you know, 15 years ago, that wouldn't have been the case. It's cool. I mean, it's a great like, democratizing of, of music, I think but good

Mike Meiers 4:10
wordage choices right there that was like swinging out of the gate with like a thesaurus and like, boom, boom, boom. But it is it's kind of crazy to think like 15 years ago, you were you knew people based on just proximity of where you were in your deal, right day to day space, but with the expansion of when you're doing online marketing, and you're posting content, and you're doing things that particular hashtags, and you're in a certain industry, that opens you up to a whole other space of people that you know, but you've never met. And it's crazy. Some of the people that I talked to the most. I haven't met physically at all yet, which is to me like I'm like, wow, it's an amazing kind of age that we live in.

Steph Trivison 4:56
Yeah, I really appreciate it because yeah now now living in what is definitely not a music town? Well, I shouldn't say that I don't want to like disparage Chapel Hill, North Carolina, but like, you know, it's not Nashville. It's not la No, it's not New York, it's not Chicago like to to develop a community is is tough and like growing up in Cleveland that came more naturally because just year after year you meet more and more people in the scene and you kind of develop develop it that way. But I moved here a couple of years ago, and I knew no one. So it's definitely like having access to folks on the internet and having zoom calls with people. This has been my way of like building the network for sure.

Mike Meiers 5:39
Well, it's funny because you say, you know, yeah, I live now and you're like, I don't live in a music. I lived in Pittsburgh, which was not far from Cleveland. But it wasn't a Music City, per se. And I think it's like when I say that, it's like, yeah, there's good music. But it's not necessarily on the top list of like, this is the music place to be we just had a lot of bridges and not all the bridges were actually why would you want to drive

Steph Trivison 6:06
dangerous roads?

Mike Meiers 6:07
Do you think that you were in Cleveland? Because someone you know, mutually is like I was like, oh my friend Maddie and it's just like, who's a coach for us? And like heard I've written a ton now that she you know, I live in Nashville. She lives in Nashville. It's crazy to actually now see a person. It's probably the one person actually to see. So for you growing up was, was it always music?

Steph Trivison 6:34
Yeah, yeah. Simple answer. Yes. Yeah, my so my dad is a musician, still active. He, he made the great Snowbird trip from Ohio down to Florida a couple of years ago. And so he plays down there and like a cover duo, you know, but he played for many years in cover bands in Ohio doing like classic rock, and that was that was his lane. But his dad, my grandpa was a jazz guitarist. And so we, I mean, we music was always around. And I was going to gigs really young. I mean, my first like, my first time on a stage was at a gig that my dad and my grandpa's band had. So they played at a restaurant, which was like, safe enough for me to go to 12 or 13. And I jumped on stage, and we played help by the Beatles. And that was the first time I ever, you know, do anything on the stage. So like, it was, it was definitely part of the DNA, it was always around. And I really wanted to emulate my dad, he had this Red Strat. And so I was like, obsessed with this guitar, and I couldn't even you know, I could barely pronounce, I certainly couldn't pronounce Stratocaster. But, you know, I could barely get stressed out, and my parents were like, Okay, we got to figure this out. And for Christmas, one year, they got me this red like plastic guitar that looked kind of like a strat. And it came with a little microphone and stuff. So yeah, I got bit by the bug really early. And I wanted to play drums. Actually, I watched I already mentioned the Beatles, but I watched the movie help. And Ringo was like the star of that movie. I don't know if you've seen it. Yeah. And so I just I was like, Oh, I gotta be a drummer. So that was actually the very first real instrument I got was a was a drumset

Mike Meiers 8:21
starting out with drums I feel is like really good. Yeah, it is because not only is a badass, because it's really cool. Actually, guitars also, but like drums that's another level. But then like fast for now it's depending on how much you get into I'm like, from a production standpoint, it's actually really good to understand the drum kit. I mean, it's pieces Yeah, the drum kit and all that later on.

Steph Trivison 8:43
Right? And I never got like super super good, but I can play even today well enough that like for me when I'm producing because I'm totally in the box at this point. But when I'm when I'm programming drums, what I missed it,

Mike Meiers 8:59
I was like, I'm the same like I'm exactly all in the box. I'm using MIDI drums I'm throwing it in. I'm programming the bouncy and I'm adding samples and sounds but like that has to be helpful to think of like, oh, I would play that this is how it would go I would do a

Steph Trivison 9:13
film Exactly. Yeah, and I like I will literally sort of air drum or like tap on my desk to understand how do I want the part to sound where do I want the fills that it makes? I mean, knowing the basics of as many instruments as you possibly can understand like to me that if you want to be a producer, you need to understand as many instruments as you can. So

Mike Meiers 9:38
when you were you know learning drums were you also to like just obsessed with listening to music because I feel like I was at a hole. Like I would listen to albums. You know, from front to back. I would obsess over like album covers and like liner notes and listen for like, little tiny sounds and like nuances, not thinking I want to produce but just obsessed with like what What is the thing that's happening?

Steph Trivison 10:01
Right songs? Right? Yeah. And we have a lot of the stuff around the house too. So like if I heard an instrument, and I was like, Oh, I think that might be a flute, I could go find a flute. You know, I could go find a recorder, I can find whatever. And sort of, like, make the connection between what I was hearing professionally that someone else had recorded and what we own. And my dad had a, he had one of those, like, Tascam, four track recorders. So that was, like, right away. I was like, I want to record music that was something like six years old. You know, I'm trying to figure out how to do this. Yeah. So it was just like, so beneficial to have all of this stuff at my fingertips at such a young age. But yeah, I mean, like that. I mentioned the Beatles a couple times now. But that was what I was obsessed with. Growing up I had, they had this like, Greatest Hits cassette kind of package where there was like, the red cassette and the blue cassette. Yeah, in there,

Mike Meiers 10:56
overlooking, like, and it's just like, different eras of The Beatles. Yeah, I know.

Steph Trivison 11:01
Exactly. I just wore that out. I mean, like, that was everything. But at the same time, I was listening to like, you know, I'm a, I'm a late 80s. Kid. So I was listening to like, Jagged Little Pill and boys, two men two, and you know, like, I was still getting like a modern, an influx of like modern music, but still really obsessed with The Beatles, The Beach Boys queen, you know, like, that was what was on in the house.

Mike Meiers 11:28
What's interesting about like, The Beatles, and the Beach Boys, like, for me, it was the same thing like The Beatles, The White Album, I obsessed over religiously, because it was like, there's also weird songs on there. There's also like, and then just the album artwork and being like, what, and then at the same time consuming things like Green Day, and then consuming things like Nirvana and a little bit of pearl, and all these different, like, you know, early 90s, and then, like, just your amalgamation, I guess, of like, all those things together. When did you then make the jump to if you're doing this, you know, you're writing songs and experimenting? When do you start just like playing your own stuff, and going out and start starting to do like that band gigging. Kind of like, next,

Steph Trivison 12:15
right? Well, I had a series of really terrible bands in high school, like we all do. I joined the, like, the it wasn't an orchestra, but like the band that, you know, sort of Wind Ensemble in our school, and really, really loved that. And I was playing guitar on the side. And by the time I got the high school, there were more and more kids who had experienced playing drums and playing bass and singing or whatever. And so I started to find those kids. And, yeah, we started writing originals. I was probably maybe 15 or so. And just like the most atrocious, lyrical content, like songs about Nintendo, like, what are your 15? Like, what are you writing about? Really? Me? What

Mike Meiers 12:59
problems can you write when you're 50? It's just like, it's you try to like write as much as you can, but they're like, Oh, yeah. Okay. Those are my problems.

Steph Trivison 13:07
Yeah, no, it's definitely like Kid writing. But yeah, but then that, you know, the first that first band I was in, I was writing these songs. We got a gig at this place in Cleveland called the pit. And it was like, this venue was on the second or third floor of a warehouse building, there's no elevator. So you got to like lug all your stuff up the stairs. And in because in this was a this was like an all girl pop band. And are like pop punk band really. And so we get there and we have these like kind of punk songs. But we're also doing covers of like, build me up buttercup, you know. And then all of the other bands on the bill are like screaming and have these like heavy metal songs. And we're just like these, these teenage girls singing Ace of Base covers like it just was really wacky, but but a great starting point, like everybody needs to go through those experiences, I think. So it started for me in my early early teenage years, and just really kept going from there. I don't think I ever slowed down from there.

Mike Meiers 14:13
What is funny, you mentioned that because I remember I think every town has a venue where it's like, yeah, there's no staircase, there's just one long staircase or like no elevator, there's just this long staircase, right? And everybody it's like, of course your bases got like the Ampeg eight by 10. And so you have to lug it up. You decided we need road cases. And so now you're just like, Ah shit, this is a terrible idea. And in Pittsburgh was the smiling moose terrible staircase. Awful, awful place in the sense of just the, the duration of like, from here to there. Don't hold on to the railing because the railing isn't secure. It's just more or less support. Yeah, it's just crazy to think that every place has something like that. But here you are still doing it. And you know, I always think about I don't know, do you ever think about two people that had the same like, drive and like, they're ready and then

you know, from someone doing this to from Band to licensing, because for me, I had no idea about this world. It was like, what, what's this? Right, how do you do this?

Steph Trivison 16:43
Well, I also had no clue at all. I wrote this song. So I was in a band called these knees for a little bit. And I wrote this song. That's

Mike Meiers 16:55
amazing. Bee's Knees.

Steph Trivison 16:58
I saw it on your face. You know, I have like, I've had a lot of knee issues over the years, and I was really strong. I was like, it was like a solo project. But I wanted a name for it. I'm like, What the heck am I gonna call this thing? And one day I we can I like swear. You can you can fucking swear. That's fine. Yeah, one day, I was like, Oh, these fucking knees because I like I had some pain or something. Right? Yeah. And I was right in the midst of trying to figure out the name. So I was like, Okay, it's gonna be these knees. And I just called it a day. But, but it was a mistake, because I boy, I will tell you like, dozens and dozens of times that people thought I was saying Bee's Knees like, oh, that's the bee's knees. So yeah, and people never heard it. Right. And that's a whole thing. But yeah, bad band names aside, I wrote a song in that band called Pacifica. And it had this like, it was like a surf rock kind of thing. Or I'd say like surf indie vibe, but it had this hook right off the top. That was just woes. But it was a catchy whoa section. And I was approached by someone connected to jukebox like ghost. Do you remember that band? I do remember that? Yeah. I don't remember if it was like a manager or how they were related, but they kind of like pitch themselves as being connected to that band. And they were like, Hey, that song Pacifica like that could be a target commercial. Have you ever thought about writing songs for commercials? And I had no idea. Like, where do you even start with that? Right. And so we had a meeting, and it didn't go anywhere. I don't think they knew how to do it. Either. They just like saw maybe potential. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna, like store that little nugget for when I need it. And several years went by. And then I a friend of mine was she's a big sports fan. But she watches like the women's national soccer team. And like the WNBA a lot of women's sports, and she's like stuff. You were an athlete. You're a musician. I watch these games, and they have all of these hype, songs that men are singing, there should be a woman singing the song for these games. And I was like, Alright, let me try something. And so I came up with a song called outlaw. And I pitched it to the professional FastPitch league. And they used it that year. And that was like really my first actual

Mike Meiers 19:28
play. We appreciate all that action, just all within that couple of sentences. So your friend says, hey, you know, it's just, you know, here's all his women's sports and it's all these dudes there. Just be like, yeah, give her and then you're just like, wait a minute, okay, I'm gonna take this and I'm gonna do something. Right, did it and not only that, but then you sought out an opportunity. You went and you're like, Hey, I've got this. Right. So many people have these opportunities where people are like, You should do this and they go Yeah, I think about it. That's my favorite I think about or it's like, I'll look into it, look into what they've told you exactly what needs to happen. And you did that all within, boom, boom, boom. That, to me is crazy.

Steph Trivison 20:15
Well, I always felt like, you know, I'm never, ever, ever, ever the most talented person in any room or session or anything like I, I feel a lot of impostor syndrome, but I am more dedicated and, you know, committed and willing to put in work and willing to try things. And also, like, willing to make an ass of myself, you know, I found a lot of embarrassing stuff out there from my early years of trying to figure it out. And I think that that has been kind of like, the difference maker for me is, is finding a way, like just figuring out how to do it. And that's where I see a lot of folks that yeah, they might want the they want the placement, they want the like glory of some of the stuff that they're seeing you do, but they're not willing to put in the work for it. And I would say that's kind of like one of the biggest downfalls I see with folks is like, just put in the effort. You know, people want shortcuts, there aren't a lot of shortcuts. There's, you just got to do it where

Mike Meiers 21:19
there's zero. It's basically the show, and I feel the same way. It's like, I'm not the craziest guitar player, I'm not the best producer. I'll show up. I'll be nice. I'll be polite. I'll do the work. I'm yeah, I'm not afraid to fuck up. I'm not afraid to make a mistake, because probably something good is gonna come from that mistake. I may write 10 songs that go nowhere. But I've got 10 songs, I've gained new information that will help the next 10 songs probably be way better. And I'm okay with being uncomfortable. Like, it's just like, Yeah, I'll be uncomfortable for a while, then there's a period of not being uncomfortable. Yeah, but it says

Steph Trivison 21:58
all the good stuff. Yeah, I feel like all the good stuff comes from the discomfort like that's where that's where you learn and grow. And whatever is like you've got to get uncomfortable. I think that's that's part of it.

Mike Meiers 22:08
Complacency doesn't really build, like, really next level things. And I think what you're describing for me to the series is you never got to a point where it was like, Oh, let it just, this is good. And I'll just let this be. This is right. But it's cool. There's another thing, there's another thing, because music or in licensing too, is just this never ending. It just keeps going. There's not going to be a point where it's like, you know, mountain top and it's like, I've reached the top of the plate now. It's it's just like you got to keep on going to the next one, the next one.

Steph Trivison 22:43
Right? What's a funny misconception that people have that like, there's yeah, there's like some, when that's ever going to be enough, you know, that's gonna be like, okay, I'm good. Now, you know, like, that's never the case. And I I mean, I suppose maybe for some people, they feel that way. For me. I am always always always thinking like, oh, it was really awesome that I just was hired to do the new Carebears theme song, which

Mike Meiers 23:09
I wanted to talk about, because I think that fucking awesome. Now, it's like, how did that happen?

Steph Trivison 23:14
We can do we can cover that. Yeah, I want to know why that happened. Yeah, well, so um, so Carebears, the company that owns the Carebears is called cloudco. And they are owned by American Greetings. And both of those are based in Cleveland. And so they have in like, kudos to them, but they have really leaned into like local talent anytime that they needed music or illustration. And so it's funny, because over the years, I've watched several of my friends do different voices for the Carebears. And I, you know, I thought, oh, maybe one day because, you know, there's only so many of us that could do like kind of a cutesy thing, right? And I was like, maybe one day I'll get it. But yeah, it was super happenstance. They were coming out with a new bear called dare to care. And dare to care has like a little bit of a mohawk and sort of like a blend of colors. And they wanted it to be a certain kind of vibe. And the producer who was hired for it thought of me to be the vocalist. So I did the vocals and then, you know, they first they wanted 15 seconds, and then they wanted 30 because they liked it so much. And then they wanted a minute. And so the song kept growing, and eventually that we built out a full song for them. And as a result of that, I actually produced the song as well. There's a there's a section of the song that we had to add, while the original producer was on vacation. So I filled in, figured out that section produced it wrote some lyrics. And yeah, and then like a few months later, it was an illustrated music video essentially for this release of this new Carebear.

Mike Meiers 24:57
So budding Again, it's like, what you described is a moment and you can't you, you either, you just need to just jump into it, there's no kind of like, oh, this is the book in the textbook that will prepare you for when, that and then you have to build out another half of the song, and jump in and do that. That is a whole series of just like, these are opportunities, and you just need to live into it, and you just do the work, which, but it's fucking Carebears. And I'm like, that's amazing. And I love that that they looked locally to for like, that that's where they started. Because like, you describe kind of like, oh, this is why it's like, Whoa, I didn't know. And that's amazing. Now,

Steph Trivison 25:42
yeah, so now there's like this, this Cleveland super group of former Carebear singers who I think we should get together, I was

Mike Meiers 25:48
gonna say they're like, it's almost like a gang that you get together every like, you know, a couple of months, and you just like a Carebears. And you don't have jackets to their leather jackets with the Carebear on the back. I love that idea. Now to me, one thing writing, but another thing producing, because that is it's like two different hats that you have to work while you're doing your writing, producing and your top line. And so to me, there's like three hats. How do you view your role kind of like in that creation of concept, building the structure in the ground and the feeling the vibe. And on top of that supplying the vocal, the thing that we're always like listening for and parts that are being used, like, how do you navigate those waters?

Steph Trivison 26:40
Well, I think for me, it started with, like, I've always viewed songwriting as a thing that I loved from the time I was, you know, like I said, probably in my early teens was when I started, actually, I mean, I wrote some songs when I was like, six or seven. But you can imagine what those sounded like, fun, awesome,

Mike Meiers 26:58
because maybe they were

Steph Trivison 27:01
maybe a little catchy. But yeah, so you know, I always saw songwriting is like, in my head, I would hear it all the stuff, you know, I would hear the drums, I would hear the guitar because I was like, sort of capable of playing all the things. That's how I, I put the songs together in my head. And then I would in bands, I would say like, Hey, bass player, can you try this? Hey, drummer, can you do something a little bit more like this. So I felt like I was always kind of producing it in a way when I was songwriting. And then I started to actually need to do it, I wanted to demo the songs that I was hearing so that I could kind of serve up parts. And so in for me, it feels like they're all kind of part of the same process. Like when I want to do songwriting. Now I'm sitting in front of a computer, almost, I would say, 95% of the time, like, that's how I start. And, you know, I've got all this stuff, and I've got my guitars, I've got my keeper, I have everything I need surrounding me. But I kind of start here. And I think as it relates to sync, or like learning how to produce for sync, it's not that different. Ultimately, you're just trying to create the best song that you can create. And if it's a crappy song, or if it's if it sounds too much like sync, they're gonna sniff that out. And say, like, no, that's not something we want. So I think you have this is

Mike Meiers 28:23
gonna be a social media clip right here just this moment, because I'm just like, this needs to be one on loop again, because this is again, refreshing to hear, because I feel like I say it a lot people say, but having you just be like, oh, yeah, can't be a six song. It has to be like a really good song.

Steph Trivison 28:38
I'm like, You're right. It's it just like you can you can feel when it's inauthentic. And I'm not saying like, I certainly write lyrics from perspectives other than my own life all the time. But it still needs to come from a place of authenticity, and it needs to sound real, like you're a real artist, and you are a real artist, you know, but like, you're like building these, this sort of puzzle of this song to fit a specific end use. So, to me, I don't think of them as like, you know, oh, I'm writing a song or I'm writing a song for sync. They're the one in the same I just trying to do. And I'll say with like, anything that I do in my life, I'm just trying to do the best that I possibly can. So that's what I strive for. Sometimes I sometimes I don't do so. Well. Sometimes I hit a home run. So it's a little bit of both but then yeah, I always try to come with the lens of like, what's the reference I guess? Like, what am I trying to accomplish with this song but where do I think it will land and and then writing with that in mind, both lyrics like vocal delivery, trying to figure out the best ways the best chance I have to get placed is to like think about those things as I'm writing. So

Mike Meiers 29:55
love that. Yeah. Especially your you have You're starting composite, but you're thinking about the bigger picture. What am I pointing this to? What do I have to be like, This is what I'm aiming for. This is what I hope for it to sound like, as opposed to being like, I'll let inspiration take the wheel and I'll figure out what it's gonna get. And meanwhile, that's where you get like the Frankenstein kind of like weird, like, yeah, the sounds like Nickelback Miley Cyrus a little bit of the BGS and Teletubbies. But it's just what you have to it still has to point somewhere. But again, authenticity, I'm like, yep. Because they can, they can sniff out something that totally fake.

Steph Trivison 30:47
And I think that's where, like you mentioned, just being a lover of music at a young age. I think that's where like having a really wide and, and also deep appreciation for music goes a long way. Because if someone comes to you with a brief and they want a hip hop song, well guess what, like, I have been in rock bands my whole life. But I know and appreciate hip hop from you know, certain artists that I've liked over the years. So that's the angle that I come from is trying to figure out like, Okay, if I if I wanted to make the Kid Cudi sound like what does that sound like? Yeah. So you gotta I think having that like depth, that knowledge of music in general, goes so so far if you're trying to be a producer in specifically in the same space.

Mike Meiers 31:38
Hey, it's Mike. And I just wanted to jump in the middle of this episode to let you know that I have a secret other podcast. That's right. It's super secret. It's secret, because we haven't been telling anyone about it. And then we realized, we need to be talking about this more. I have an after hours podcast. That's right. Every Wednesday at 7pm Central. I'm going live on our YouTube page. And I'm talking a little bit more about the episode that we just released because these podcasts come out on Wednesday. And I dive even deeper the process behind why we chose this topic, kind of the backstory, all the little details, all the extra things that I wish we could get into in the regular podcast. But honestly, with time, we don't always get a chance to do that. So I was like, we need to have an after hours podcast. This is where you can come. It's live, you can ask me questions. So remember, just go to youtube.com/songwriting. For guitar, you're going to see where you can join our lives. So remember, Wednesday at 7pm Central, the after hours podcast. All right, let's jump back into the episode

How do you navigate to coming from a live band perspective and then coming to the production because I was like trying to describe someone? Okay. How you play it live is not necessarily how you have to play it when you're recording because like live is a moment. Recording is something that's going to be used again and again. Right? How do you as a producer kind of like, again, I guess navigate those waters of like, yeah, oh, it's just like that's the live field. But this is how it needs to be for recording.

Steph Trivison 33:25
Yeah, I feel like it's so much about serving the song. Like when you're alive. I've definitely seen bands play live where you know, you've got a guitar player, or you got a guitarist who's like playing a part. And then you've got a bass player playing a part and you've got the drummer doing the most Yeah, as much as he can possibly do. And it's sort of chaotic, but in a live setting. It's like, oh, wow, look at all this energy on the stage. This is kind of fun. And you can kind of like except that when it's live recording, I think it's you really have to be very careful about how you're serving the song. And not having too many competing parts and just really pulling it back a bit. You know, getting really tight. I think about the way that I track guitar parts now as like, as tight and tidy as I can possibly make them. Yeah,

Mike Meiers 34:21
yep. Yep. I agree. It's just like it has to be. But that just made me so like when you were like, yeah, when you see it live, it is impressive when you listen to is like, this sounds like a jumbled mess.

Steph Trivison 34:35
Right? It's like a cacophony of I don't know, it just is it's never good. And, ya know, like, I just I struggle when I see that kind of stuff, particularly with young bands, because it's like, well, you just don't you guys are just all trying to play the coolest parts that you can play on top of each other. And that's, that's not what good songwriting is about. It's maybe fun, but it's like, you're not gonna get far if that's what you're doing all the time. So, yeah,

Mike Meiers 35:01
but I love that you're, you're looking for it to be fluid to have that the song serve the song to have lots moments, lots of possible use for that. And I feel like for me in the beginning, I was better at that than the technical side of recording, because there was a whole bunch of shit that I was just like, I don't know what this does, like, you know, I'd hear what you just need to bust that. What was that? I don't know what that means. And I'm scared to hit the bus thing on logic, because I have no idea what it does. It's like, what where do I need the bus? And why do I need the bus? What is it going to do? I don't think it does anything. Right? How was that to like, you know, starting to build that, that repertoire of, you know, the technical side as you're creating?

Steph Trivison 35:50
Well, like, for me, it was it was pretty, like a natural evolution over a decade. You know, like I said, I was starting to make demos and stuff. And I had been in the studio enough times with this wonderful, wonderful engineer, Jim Stewart. So hi, Jim, if you're listening, but I was in the studio enough times with him and really was like a sponge and wanted to learn what he was doing and tried to really pay attention. And so then when it came time to like tracking stuff on my eyes, like oh, why can't I get it to sound? Like he did? Like what do I have to do to get that delay to sound separate? What do I have to do to like, you know, create space from this? My read the there's too much reverb in my vocals washed out, like, what can I do? Yeah. And so I think it was like a natural progression of like, experience in a proper studio with being able to watch people who knew what they were doing. And then trying to recreate that myself. And I, I spent a few, probably a few years just like watching YouTube's and trying to gain knowledge that way. And eventually, I felt like that started to there was a snowball effect of like, Oh, I'm making so many connections. Now I finally understand how these things work. And today, I still, I mean, like, every week, I'm watching tutorials from different producers and taking in as much content as I can. Because I still feel although I have, you know, paying gigs and clients and artists who want to work with me and that kind of stuff. I still don't feel like I'm, you know, that great of a producer, I have so much further to go than where I'm at today. So it's like constant learning, like a growth mindset. You know, like, to me that has been everything but the technical stuff. Honestly, it's just like watching YouTube, and saying, yeah, why do I need a bus? What does it do? Where does it when I when I click on this? Where does it even like send the neutral? Like, yeah, trying to figure out all that I really just watched and learned,

Mike Meiers 37:47
I love it's the same. Like I think there's something you said of just watching somebody do their thing. And just be like, Oh, that's interesting. They're gone. They're okay. I would also say, I'm not going to ask you any quick. I just want to watch, which was a total lie, because I'd always like be like, Oh, I got a question. What are you doing? But just being there? Like, we were talking about drums, and I remember, there was a period where I was like, Man, my drum sounds so fake. Like, they use sound like many drums. I'm like, Well, number one, you're not separating them. Okay? Remember, like, when you were in the studio, there were lots of mics everywhere to like the mic under the drum on top of the drum over the drum side of the case. So they're picking up all these different likes. So try to recreate like, what was the room drum sound like? What was the bullet Mike? That's like super shitty that like distorts and then plant. And it's like, oh, wait a minute. You're right. That's why I had those moments. Right? Because I do know I just have to be more intentional. And like think about think about as I put it together. But I also love how you mentioned even though you get to a point where great things are happening. You never become complacent that ends like cool, it's time to up the learning. I feel like I always have to invest more in the education side because if I don't, then I'm going to stay at a certain point or my fear is always like than just the slight just like regressing if any.

Steph Trivison 39:12
Right? Yeah, I complacency is just like so boring to me. I'm like, okay, whatever, like move on. I want to learn I want to grow, I want to be better always. Yeah, you got to put in that effort. I think it's interesting like talking about, you know, the studio mics and being in a space watching someone do their thing. And going back to what I was saying about like, really understanding at a basic level, how to play as many instruments as you can think about broke programming drums and sometimes people will bring like a demo where they program the drums in the high hats. There's like no velocity difference on the high hats or something, you know, so it's just like, like, it's awful. And I think like yeah, what drummer Do you know that play is a hi hat like that no one you gotta like, click about this, like, how do you make this sound more human? You gotta like, you're doing it in a computer. So now, now you have all of these, these tools at your fingertips. Yeah, but you have to still make it sound human. Yeah. So it's, it's tricky. But I think so much of it just comes from the observation. And yeah, watching people that are excellent at their craft, and trying to take what you can from them.

Mike Meiers 40:30
And I think the one thing that you did, which also helps is just like that implementation, you're watching, and you just start doing, because you have two options. I think people also wait where they're like, I'm just gonna accumulate more knowledge, and give it 10 years, and that's when I'll make my first move. It's like, no, no, no, no, you got to move now, but it's not going to be good. Oh, no, no, I won't. You gotta be okay. But not being good.

Steph Trivison 40:59
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's gonna be trash.

Mike Meiers 41:02
For sure. Yeah, it's just being okay with that, I guess maybe that's my first level of uncomfortable. Or maybe the first level of uncomfortable, I don't know, it's like, for me, it's starting a band and saying terrible songs. And just being in front and being uncomfortable that they suck, and nobody likes your band at first, or it's just like, only a small pool people do. And that's as far as you get. And some people get disheartened by that. And others go like, Okay, well, I'll start again, I'll do another one. I'll see what happens this time. And they try, they just at least attempt to do it again. But try to do a better version. Right?

Steph Trivison 41:38
It feels like there's maybe some level of like healthy delusion, you know, where you like, don't know that you suck, maybe or like or like, oh, I suck a little bit like maybe I'm not so bad. Like, some kind of delusion helps you move, move forward. I

Mike Meiers 41:53
think, you know, everybody talks about ego. And I think there's two sides, there's a healthy ego, and then there's unhealthy, unhealthy, like, oh, you know, there's that side. And there's like, you don't I can't be really good at this. I think things are gonna work out. I mean, it's not necessarily, it might not be in the timeframe that I want. And it may not always be the way I want. But I think I'm going to be okay, I think this is going to be this is going to, you kind of have to believe in some sense that things are going to work out that it will be worth it. And you just have to be okay with that.

Steph Trivison 42:26
Yeah, and I think it's like taking taking the winds and using those as fuel to you know, it's like, if I hadn't received there were certain signs along the way that like, oh, maybe I'm on the right path. You know, I was like, I was booked for like a McDonald's commercial. I had like a really cool interaction with Jack Antonoff once where he was like, Wow, you guys are actually like a really tight like, local band like we almost never have local openers that are as tight as you guys are. He wanted to trade CDs you know, and like, it's those little moments are

Mike Meiers 43:00
pretty fucking awesome. Those are several. So did you open up for fun early on?

Steph Trivison 43:06
It wasn't fun actually was steel train. So his van fun? Yeah.

Mike Meiers 43:11
Oh, yeah. That was like that was a hidden drive thru band. Yeah, that was definitely drive thru records. That's a hidden band right there.

Steph Trivison 43:20
Yeah, so steel train played the grog shop in Cleveland and we were an opening act at the end. And I knew them because I was like, into that scene like fearless drive through like the appetite all those those labels I was like, really into and so I knew I definitely knew that I was a little bit starstruck and Jack came up after after the gig and like what like I said, he was like, Can we trade CDs which now is like so laughable to me that this dude who is this mega producer ever wanted to just like exchange a CD and are the one that I gave him was like, a home studio super shitty thing. I just think he got the bad.

Mike Meiers 44:05
It's moments like that that do have to pay because you have to. It's not always going to be front and center spotlight amaze it like you know like how you want it's just gonna be these little tiny moments of like, right? It's good if people are like Johnny and raw foods that is like, oh, he just produces basically all of Taylor Swift now Lana Del Rey and is basically this Grammy Award winning producer then did the BM fun has had numerous hit singles. You know, just how it is, you know, hangs out with comedian Mike Birbiglia. They're besties and they're doing all but that to me is like, those are moments where you're like, okay, cool. You know what, I'm just gonna remember this, especially when things are not necessarily I wake up and they're Sunny. They're like, it's a day where I could hit the eject button and not create, but something tells me No, I'm just gonna put in the work anyway, I'm done. I'm gonna show up because I need to. Yeah.

Steph Trivison 45:04
Well, and for me, it was always like, well, maybe I do have something, you know, I always needed that reassurance that I wasn't just terrible and everything. And I was like, Okay, well, if Jack liked what we did, like, that's cool, maybe I've got something there. And if, like I said about, you know, someone hired me to be in a McDonald's commercial, that's cool, I must have like something that's appealing

Mike Meiers 45:25
that point, you have to be like, I am doing something. Right, right, and I got to just keep on going.

Steph Trivison 45:33
And that's the key is you have to, you can't just give up because it's hard a lot of the time, you just have to keep going, if you if you if what you want is to be successful, or like have a have like a career or even a side hustle. Like I have a full time job. So like, if that's what you want, I think you got to use those moments, and you need to add an hour, just just the Hold on,

Mike Meiers 45:56
I think you do, because you described it, I think it is you just have to, you know, if you want this, and act like you want to show up and do it. And it's and be okay with just you know, you're going to have to put in the work, just accept that and just be like, This is how it is. And that's okay. You know, and it but you know, I'm sure some people will be like, but it happened quickly for so and so that's great. That's awesome. I think it's also coming from a place of gratitude. When you see someone do something that's great. And it works out for them to be happy. I'm trying to be happy and not like, that was a missed opportunity for me. But it's just like, that's fucking amazing. Like, I love hearing when people do good. Yeah, it's just fun to hear. Because it's like, What's always interesting, there's always a cool story. It's never just like, it happened overnight. It's just like, here's what happened this and then this happens, like, Oh, that's cool. And to me, then it's like, I look forward to not only them getting more moments like that, but then having a moment like that myself where I'll be like, you're gonna not believe it. I was at this gas station when Dutta in like it's a, you know, we're short, but it happened. Those are cool. For sure. Now, my question would be, if somebody was starting out in production right now, and let's say they're, they're just starting out, and everything seems daunting, like this entire process, you know, they love it. But it seems daunting, what would be your best piece of, I guess, kind of encouragement.

Steph Trivison 47:38
I would say start with what with where you're at, start where you're at now. If what that means is like, you play guitar, and you sing, and that's all you know how to do. Well then get really good at making demos of you playing guitar and singing, you know, like, track your parts, double double track your guitar, like, learn the sort of basics of how to make those two elements sound as good as they can. And certainly, like, I've been promoting YouTube, like, go to YouTube,

Mike Meiers 48:11
buy those. And you're right, it's just like, if you could just get a good recording of your guitar and vocal, right, but just starting with where you're at, because people are always looking to, what should I do now? And it's like, what can you do? Right? This very much like, what's like step one you could do? Right? That is? Yeah,

Steph Trivison 48:32
I think when you get good at that, you know, like, there's, at least for me, there's a bit of like, an obsession about recording or like, I do something, and it sounds cool. And I'm like, Oh, great. Maybe I'll put bass on it. Now, you know, and like, you start to let your excitement take you to the next step and the next step and the next step, then I think he's just you do that for years. You build on it, and just see where it takes you. But like, You got to start with, with where you are, and not have like, unrealistic expectations that like, suddenly, you're going to be Jack Anttila. For example, in two months of producing, that's not going to happen, but you can get there over a period of time, depending on how much work you put into it.

Mike Meiers 49:16
There. I like that. I like that you're like over a period of time, depending on how much work it just like just that little slide. But I think yeah, it's just starting where you are. And being okay with that, like, what's the one thing you can do right now? Cool. You can play guitar and you can sing, start just doing lots of vocal like demos of yourself because they're gonna be bad. Because I feel like there was a period of time too of getting used to hearing myself nothing was worse than like a dry vocal in the studio in a section where I totally fucked up and it was on loop and repeat and it was like I don't believe in hell. But if this was held this, this would be it right here. Just listening to that one vocal again and again. But then eventually, it's almost like becoming immune to it and be like, oh, yeah, that's totally wrong. Cool. Here's why I can do to make it right.

Steph Trivison 50:09
Exactly. Yeah, like Louis shedding the embarrassment of it. Like, we're, we're human beings, we're not going to sing every take perfect. In fact, most Tech's I think are gonna have a lot of mistakes. So like, just go through and listen and be critical and fix the parts that you need to fix and then move on, you know, oh, there was a great video. I want to say it was on like, a Netflix Show with David Letterman, maybe. But there's a video of Billy Eilish. And maybe Phineas was there too. But showing him how many takes like the basically a cop? They were? He was they were describing how you count vocals. And they were like, oh, yeah, this one took 34 takes or whatever it was. And he was so blown away by that. But it's like, yeah, that's that's how a lot of people do it. I mean, certainly there. There are probably one tick wonders out there. But I don't think that that's the norm.

Mike Meiers 51:05
I saw that. And it was great. Because it was just like, he was just blown away. She was like, different take different take a different take a different to and he was like what? That sounds like one. And it's like, yeah, that's the whole idea. Right? But oh, my goodness stuff. This was awesome. I feel like there's so much more we could get into because I feel like we can do a half of mindset because we barely covered like, yeah, we've covered story, but to me, like, you know, starting to build your your journey to it's like it's a whole bunch of mindset and a whole bunch of building yourself up a lot.

Steph Trivison 51:40
Yeah. But there's so much. I feel like there could be therapists who exist solely to work with musicians, I think.

Mike Meiers 51:49
I think there are that's what that's what coaches. That's what Yes, you're right. You're right. This is great. So if people want to follow you, where do they go?

Steph Trivison 51:59
Well, I'm primarily socials, I'm on Instagram at Steph trivets and music. I've got Steph trebizond.com Of course, got name, email list, all that kind of stuff. But yeah, Instagram is my main source. So you have the best chance of reaching me there. And then just stay tuned to your televisions because there might be a song on there that I worked on.

Mike Meiers 52:23
This is awesome. So

Steph Trivison 52:24
yeah. Hey, before we go, I gotta congratulate you your books out too. Well, and folks, will this will be later when you air it. But your books out today? Yeah. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. It's a huge accomplishment. Yeah, it

Mike Meiers 52:35
was fun. It was it was cool that that in itself was a doing of just like I should write a book. Cool. Let's go do it. Let's just like, yeah, thank you. I'm so glad that we were able to like chat because I feel like now we were we were passing strangers in the Instagram space. But now it's just like, Okay, we talked.

Steph Trivison 52:53
Yeah, this was so. Um, so. I've been I've been excited since you reached out. I'm, I'm so happy to me. I feel like we're you know, I've looked at some of your stuff. Like, I know you're Butch Walker fan. He's like my favorite musician of all time.

Mike Meiers 53:08
Nashville that we're gonna, you know, that we're going to just, you know, I don't know, pass by him in a Kroger. And I'm just Yeah.

Steph Trivison 53:17
Yeah, you should well, you should just smile. I shouldn't. You shouldn't stalk him. But you should try to increase your chances of meeting him. I think I'll either I would love that. Yeah, but I feel like I feel like kindred I don't know. I'm like, I have obviously taken in a lot of your content. I know you're in your late 30s. I'm in my late 30s Where you're from Pittsburgh. I'm from Cleveland. I feel like we have so many just like alignment things happening there. That I feel like I know you but it's great to finally actually get to talk. Likewise.

Mike Meiers 53:46
I feel like I know you too. And it's just like, we actually talked like this was not on Instagram, but this was and I'm sure this will be I have your back because I feel like there's we've just barely scratched the surface.

Steph Trivison 53:58
Yeah, happy anytime. Let me know.

Mike Meiers 54:01
Awesome. Thanks for being on. Thank you.

And that does it for this week's episode. Like always, it was edited and produced by Chris valueless. I'm Mike Myers. I can't tell you how many times I have to record the word edited. It's hard to say try to say it naturally a few times. But anyway, thanks for listening.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai